These forks!?! 2014 YZ450...

Yamaha YZ450F 2014

87 replies to this topic
  • swaldrop

Posted December 23, 2013 - 10:30 PM

#41

Update: Like others have said in previous posts, the forks settled in nicely right around 7 hours or so and have been great since. I am still running the same setup as I was when finding a sweet spot (c14 r7).

 

That being said, I spent a few days at a hard pack track and should probably make some adjustments. I haven't yet as I am a little apprehensive to start moving things around too much, but will probably play around with both ends next time i'm out there.

 

At 15 hours, I am very happy with the bike, so long as I am sand. Needs a little work still on the harder dirt. 



  • sesker15

Posted January 12, 2014 - 11:16 PM

#42

What would you guys recommend to make the front wheel feel more planted? Or any other tips to get rid of the light front end feel. 



  • cory151

Posted January 20, 2014 - 08:59 PM

#43

What would you guys recommend to make the front wheel feel more planted? Or any other tips to get rid of the light front end feel. 

Great question, thats my issue right now is slight uncertainty upon turn in. 



  • MXKyle

Posted January 21, 2014 - 11:11 AM

#44

Great question, thats my issue right now is slight uncertainty upon turn in. 

Have you done the changes already recommended here?  Set the fork height,adjusted the rebound, compression and most of all set the shock sag to 110mm?  

 

I had a lot of problems getting my '14 to turn but now it feels planted and I am very happy charging into corners.

 

--KT--



  • motoxjeff

Posted February 06, 2014 - 05:51 AM

#45

What would you guys recommend to make the front wheel feel more planted? Or any other tips to get rid of the light front end feel.


Hands down the best mod I have down for the 14 was buy the radiator lowering kit from Dr. D. I HIGHLY recommend it! Makes the bike just sit in corners.

I also bought the xtrig triple clamps and changed the offset to 20. Now it handles like a RM. Point& shoot!

  • NitrousR1

Posted February 09, 2014 - 08:18 AM

#46

These 14 yz450's are valved very stiff on the base valve. I was actually shocked when I rebuilt a set last week. The 06-09 forks had 17 32.1 face shims, these 2014 forks have something like 25! I see why they did it but its a little excessive.
If it is still too stiff after running minimum oil level and the comp clicker farther out then a revalve is in order. Even softening it a little should make a big difference.

  • swaldrop

Posted February 10, 2014 - 09:43 AM

#47

I see why they did it but its a little excessive.

 

Do tell... Why would they add so many to these new forks?

A buddy of mine at the track told me to check these as well as he assumed that may be the case.

 

What do you think would be a good baseline to start with? I have all but gotten used to the forks as is, but I could stand for them to be a tad more plush in the initial stroke still.



  • NitrousR1

Posted February 10, 2014 - 03:00 PM

#48

What I and many tuners believe are they add so many face shims to compensate for the complaint of lack of front end traction. They are valving stiff so the front end feels planted- even at the expense of harshness, especially on small hits such as braking/accel bumps. In 2010-the first year of that generation they ran a traditional 06-09 17 face shim set-up. Starting in 2011 and then especially 2012 and 13 they have been ramping up the dampening for everybody's front end woes.  

 If your using the bike for MX use i'd remove 2-3 compression face shims from the basevalve. If you are doing woods riding then it will take more then that to get plush. Start with that and let us know how it feels. That is a good start and not too excessive.



  • grayracer513

Posted February 10, 2014 - 03:22 PM

#49

So, in "undoing" that suspected "fix", have you found the complaints about the front feeling light or not "planted" come back?  The thing is that I don't buy that there isn't a lot more to the improvement between the '10-'13 (Gen3) and the '14 than fork valving.

 

Turning the question around, have you been able to address the same complaints on a Gen3 just by stiffening the base?

 

Yamaha typically puts a crossover (24-28mm) a few shims up in the base stack.  Have you found that in a '14 or not?



  • NitrousR1

Posted February 10, 2014 - 05:05 PM

#50

I have stiffened the base valve of 10-13 bikes for a rider that did not mind some initial harshness. That did seem to add some stability. They do say the stock front tire is junk and exaggerates the front end grip. So a good front tire is crucial. Also they changes the front axle.
However on these 14's I think they are excessively stiff. I'm sure it does help with front end grip but has to be harsh. After looking at my notes that was the 14 yz250f has 25- 32.1 face shims than 4- 30.1 shims.
for the 14 450f it has 12- 32.2 face shims- yes .2mm thick! That must really beat you up in the chop. On top of that it has heavier fork springs then prior years.
For the shock they lightened the stack even more! only 3 face shims. So people are too far in on rebound with little free bleed. I think your rebound stack would really help the 14.

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  • swaldrop

Posted February 11, 2014 - 12:00 AM

#51

I had an '11 and loved those forks. I was pretty frustrated with this new bike at first. Once I broke them in and found tried a few suggestions, I have gotten used to them. However, when the track starts to break down these forks like to fight back.

 

With 12 32.2's, what do you think would be a good base? 10? 11? Or maybe replace the whole stack with something closer to what I had stock in my '11? Any idea what that was?



  • grayracer513

Posted February 11, 2014 - 08:02 AM

#52

12 32x.20 shims roughly equals 75 32x.11 shims.  I think I'd end up restacking the whole thing if I didn't have some time to fiddle with using the .20's in with a few .11's.  Is there a bleed stack, or something we're missing here?



  • NitrousR1

Posted February 11, 2014 - 08:41 AM

#53

I didn't ride a 14 yet but that fork has got to be extremely stiff. Even stiff enough for a pro mx'er. It has to beat you up over chop or anything less then a ideal prepped mx track. Combined with that very light rebound shock it must be a weird ride in stock form
Up to this point .20 shims were unheard of in a twin chamber kyb fork, they always used .10's

  • grayracer513

Posted February 11, 2014 - 10:04 AM

#54

KYB never uses .10's.  I know it sounds like hair splitting, but the light KYB shims are .11's, and there's a difference.  a single .11 is approximately equivalent to 1.15 of the .10mm shims.   It adds up in a big enough stack.

 

But you're right, up to now, they haven't used .20's in the base valve, although they could have quite easily. 

 

I'm not going to make a recommendation on this until I see the complete fork laid out.   It can't be that simple.



  • swaldrop

Posted February 11, 2014 - 10:41 AM

#55

My knowledge is pretty limited in regard to suspension theory, buy I have spent quite a bit of time messing with forks in the past. I'm just glad that there is more to these new forks than stiffer springs because that never made much sense to me as different as they felt.

 

They work amazingly when you need all of the stroke but you hit the nail on the head as far as how they feel in the small chop. I am 200 lbs with gear and am 14 out on compression, on a sand track no less. Doesn't seem like an ideal setting and I would love to try some new valving.

 

Ever since I first rode these SSS forks back in '06 I have thought people (of my similar skill set) were crazy to spend time or money on a re-valve and have heard more stories about how it got worse, rather than better in most cases. I may need to eat a little crow on this bike and tweak the stack a bit though it seems.



  • kx1984

Posted February 11, 2014 - 09:27 PM

#56

I am 7 rides into this bike and the forks suck! Every single day has been adjusting ,adjusting , adjusting.

 

I still have my 10' so pulling those forks is an option.

 

I dont know what they did or how this fork gets great reviews but mine are a mess.

 

A section of 3" bracking bumps at speed seem to send these forks into hydrolic lock.

 

I am super heavy and have gone to way stiffer springs....54kg (same as in the 10').

 

At 275lb. with stock valving , I should be blowing right through the stroke or atleast should not be noticing any overly hash portions of the stroke.

 

 I've got a zip tie to confirm that I am using all of the stroke.

 

With the heavier springs ,after one ride I dropped the oil from 335 to 300cc's. That still sucked.

 

I then went to 275cc's (below the min limit but remember , I have .54's in there.

 

 The fork is still harsh on braking bumps unless I back the compression way way out to where the front end does not feel stable.

 

I am going to play with the bike a little more but I seem headed for a re-valve,

 

I am just confirming... at my weight , these forks should not feel stiff at all. They jacked something up. 

If I am feeling like the forks are harsh , no one in the 200lb range should feel guilty about thinking the forks are harsh,    There is something wrong in there.



  • swaldrop

Posted February 12, 2014 - 08:26 AM

#57

I am 7 rides into this bike and the forks suck! Every single day has been adjusting ,adjusting , adjusting.

 

I don't know how many hours you have on the bike, but at 22, mine are good now. Still a little harsh like I was saying, but I no longer am at odds with them. They seemed to take much longer to break in than past bikes. Plus, any change to this bike seems to have a big effect on the front end. Ultimately for me, It was a messed up sag setting that was jacking me up. 

 

It's been a while since I have broken in to a set of forks so I am a little apprehensive, but I do want to try removing a few face shims off the base stack to see if that helps.



  • NitrousR1

Posted February 12, 2014 - 05:04 PM

#58

I am 7 rides into this bike and the forks suck! Every single day has been adjusting ,adjusting , adjusting.

I still have my 10' so pulling those forks is an option.

I dont know what they did or how this fork gets great reviews but mine are a mess.

A section of 3" bracking bumps at speed seem to send these forks into hydrolic lock.

I am super heavy and have gone to way stiffer springs....54kg (same as in the 10').

At 275lb. with stock valving , I should be blowing right through the stroke or atleast should not be noticing any overly hash portions of the stroke.

I've got a zip tie to confirm that I am using all of the stroke.

With the heavier springs ,after one ride I dropped the oil from 335 to 300cc's. That still sucked.

I then went to 275cc's (below the min limit but remember , I have .54's in there.

The fork is still harsh on braking bumps unless I back the compression way way out to where the front end does not feel stable.

I am going to play with the bike a little more but I seem headed for a re-valve,

I am just confirming... at my weight , these forks should not feel stiff at all. They jacked something up.
If I am feeling like the forks are harsh , no one in the 200lb range should feel guilty about thinking the forks are harsh, There is something wrong in there.

This is probably the 10th time I've heard of the harsh 2014 forks. So far I haven't heard of them being soft even by fast mx riders. I can't see these being soft for anyone. The only cure for this would be a revalve, you can soften the base valve stack yourself or go to a tuner.
If you go with a tuner id pick someone local who can watch you ride so he can see what's happening since this model is so new with little testing.
They did make a lot of changes at one time including moving the steering head of the frame 10mm back, a new front axle and lugs. New upper fork tube shape. Redesigned triples... The list goes on. Most to help with front grip. They also say the stock front tire is garbage and to replace it asap.
This issue though seems to be a excessively stiff base valve stack. Would you do this revalve yourself or go to a tuner

  • delmas

Posted February 12, 2014 - 06:05 PM

#59

This is probably the 10th time I've heard of the harsh 2014 forks. So far I haven't heard of them being soft even by fast mx riders. I can't see these being soft for anyone. The only cure for this would be a revalve, you can soften the base valve stack yourself or go to a tuner.
If you go with a tuner id pick someone local who can watch you ride so he can see what's happening since this model is so new with little testing.
They did make a lot of changes at one time including moving the steering head of the frame 10mm back, a new front axle and lugs. New upper fork tube shape. Redesigned triples... The list goes on. Most to help with front grip. They also say the stock front tire is garbage and to replace it asap.
This issue though seems to be a excessively stiff base valve stack. Would you do this revalve yourself or go to a tuner

I early on replaced the 14 forks with my 2010 set and pulled the rear shaft out of the 10 and  it fits right in to the 14 shock body.You will need a older model  front wheel and axle to fit the forks on.my bike rides  like a dream.You can also buy the 2010 parts ,mid valve and base valve and install on the 2014



  • grayracer513

Posted February 13, 2014 - 08:57 AM

#60

You can also buy the 2010 parts ,mid valve and base valve and install on the 2014

 

That would be a ridiculously expensive approach to take when one could simply revalve the thing. 







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