GYTR tuner can't communicate with the ECU ?


53 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 06, 2013 - 08:01 PM

#1

I have removed the battery, relays, fuses and starter from my bike. I have also removed the trip computer. I have relocated the ECU and capacitor to under the seat. Other than unplugging these items, the wiring harness on my bike is 100% stock.

Today I loaded a bunch of maps into my GYTR tuner.

With the engine idling, I am able to "monitor" my bike with the GYTR tuner without any issues. I can watch temperature, RPM, manifold pressure, etc, with no problems.

My GYTR tuner shows my bike has zero error codes.

However, when I attempt to upload a map from the tuner into my bike's ECU, it gives me a Cannot Connect to the ECU error. What could be causing this ?


Thanks

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 06, 2013 - 08:06 PM

#2

For those of you that have a GYTR tuner, what state does the bike have to be in for it to "connect" ? Ignition on, engine not running ? Ignition on, engine running ? Can you upload a map while the engine is running ?

Thanks

  • 080

Posted October 07, 2013 - 03:55 AM

#3

Tuner on then ignition on but not running.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 08:24 AM

#4

I removed the "ignition" switch from my bike. I put a jumper in the switch socket so that it was always on. As I removed the battery, there was no need for it.

I get the ECU connection error when trying to program it whether the engine is running or not.

As I said before, I can monitor the engine when its running without any issues.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 07, 2013 - 08:25 AM.


  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 09:12 AM

#5

You can monitor while the engine is running do to the ECU having power. The only way you can reflash the ECU is with the ECU powered up and the engine not running. Apparently the ECU needs power for its bootloader to work. I'm not sure how the YZ's do it. I'm still trying to understand how one kick can power the fuel pump, pressurize the injector, boot up the ECU, charge the coil and get the bike started. Anyway I would look at a way to provide 12 V to the system with batteries maybe a plug-in battery pack. I don't have it available right now but I would look at the schematics of the on off switch for that bike. It could be more than one circuit needs to be completed. 



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 09:24 AM

#6

I too think there is a problem with the power supply when the WR450F has no battery and its not running.

Here is the schematic for a 2012 YZ450.

2012%20YZ450F%20wiring%20diagram.jpg
2012%20YZ451F%20wiring%20diagram%20parts


The ECU connector has 3 wires. Red, which goes to the power on the bike. Gnd, which goes to the ECU ground. The light green wire, which communicates with the ECU.

I expect the WR450F to use a very similar system, as the GYTR tuner works with both.

The wiring schematics in my WR450F Owners Service Manual are way to small to read !!!!! Does anyone have a better version ?

Question: is the supply voltage on a YZ450F 5V or 12V ?

Aside: I wonder if the harness for a YZ450F would work for the WR450F ? Edit: it doesn't... the ECM connector is different. The 2012 YZ450F appears to be 3 rows of pins. My WR450F is 2 rows.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 07, 2013 - 06:56 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 09:39 AM

#7

2 ideas.

1) The GYTR Tuner Youtube video talks about using NiMH batteries on the YZ450F. I am using regular alkaline batteries.

2) I wonder if there is something in the WR450F circuit left on my bike that is drawing power that prevents the tuner from working properly. The YZ450F has a very similar fuel injection/ fuel pump setup, so I doubt that is it. I need to look at the WR450F schematics in detail to see what is different about it.

3) I'm wondering if the WR450F has a 12V system and supplies 12V to the ECU whereas the YZ450F is a 5V system ?

Anyone have a readable WR450F schematic ?

Why can't the ECU be tuned when the engine is running ?

Edit: the manual schematics aren't as bad as I remember them to be. They are probably usable.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 07, 2013 - 10:04 AM.


  • 080

Posted October 07, 2013 - 10:39 AM

#8

2 ideas.

1) The GYTR Tuner Youtube video talks about using NiMH batteries on the YZ450F. I am using regular alkaline batteries.

2) I wonder if there is something in the WR450F circuit left on my bike that is drawing power that prevents the tuner from working properly. The YZ450F has a very similar fuel injection/ fuel pump setup, so I doubt that is it. I need to look at the WR450F schematics in detail to see what is different about it.

3) I'm wondering if the WR450F has a 12V system and supplies 12V to the ECU whereas the YZ450F is a 5V system ?

Anyone have a readable WR450F schematic ?

Why can't the ECU be tuned when the engine is running ?

Edit: the manual schematics aren't as bad as I remember them to be. They are probably usable.

 

Running normal batteries here and haven't had any issue's programming although I remember reading that as well. Like vlxjim said, power up the tuner, then power up the bike but without the engine running to upload/download maps etc. Probably already past this though reading your post.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 10:47 AM

#9

Running normal batteries here and haven't had any issue's programming although I remember reading that as well. Like vlxjim said, power up the tuner, then power up the bike but without the engine running to upload/download maps etc. Probably already past this though reading your post.


There is no battery in the bike, thus no way to power it up. What happens if you disconnect your battery and try to program the ECU ?

I want to find a way to program it without having the battery in, so that I can do it on the trail without carrying one along.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 07, 2013 - 10:48 AM.


  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 10:49 AM

#10

I would think that the GYTR programmer would be able to power the ECU for programing. But I think there's something that's limiting the power signal from getting to the ECU. Does the off on power switch contain only two wires? There must be a way for the ECU to receive power from the programmer. I Would trace the three pin connectors power lead all the way from the connector through whatever switching circuits there are right up to the ECU. The reason you can't flash the ECU with the motorcycle running is probably due to the fact that the map is probably a simple lookup table which is in use while the motors running. Either way the processor is using that part of the memory during the operation of the bike. 



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  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 11:03 AM

#11

I would think that the GYTR programmer would be able to power the ECU for programing. [/quote] Agreed. This is how it works on the YZ.


But I think there's something that's limiting the power signal from getting to the ECU. Does the off on power switch contain only two wires?
Yes. It actually has 4 wires, but 2 of them are to turn on the ECU error LED. I verified that in the schematics.

There must be a way for the ECU to receive power from the programmer. I Would trace the three pin connectors power lead all the way from the connector through whatever switching circuits there are right up to the ECU.[quote] I can't even find the "Connector for optional part" in the Yamaha schematics.

Its amazing how complicated the WR harness is compared to the YZ harness. The WR has a whole bunch of "Joint Connectors", which to me just look like splice points.

[quote] The reason you can't flash the ECU with the motorcycle running is probably due to the fact that the map is probably a simple lookup table which is in use while the motors running. Either way the processor is using that part of the memory during the operation of the bike.
Agreed. But these days a processor should be fast enough to modify the table while its running.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 11:20 AM

#12

Things my WR has on it yet that the YZ doesn't

- fuel level sender
- resistor in the lighting circuit
- neutral switch
- clutch switch

The YZ has no joint connectors.

Engine sensors on the YZ get powered from red wires. Engine sensors on the WR get powered from color L, whatever that is. Those L wires originate at the joint connector.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 11:47 AM

#13

Just inspected my bike. The programmer tool connector has 3 pins. Red, black and a greeny bluish one. Lets call it lavender. Black has perfect continuity with chassis ground. Red is presumably 12V power as all the lights, etc get powered from reds in the schematic. And the Lavender one goes straight to pin 18 on the ECM connector.

When I power up the programmer when not connected to my WR, the red wire on the programmer is at 6.84 volts with respect to the black wire.

When I connect the programmer to the bike and power it up, the red wire on the bike is at 6.84 volts as well.

The voltage out of the programmer is not dropping when I connect to the bike.

Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, October 07, 2013 - 12:05 PM.


  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:02 PM

#14

Did you see 6.84 V at the ECU?



  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:05 PM

#15

Check the ground (black wire) at ECU connector. To make sure that the ground not been switched off somewhere. 



  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:07 PM

#16

I wish someone would upload the 2012 manual so that we can have the schematics and troubleshooting online so we have access to it. I'm at work right now.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:18 PM

#17

Did you see 6.84 V at the ECU?


I'm still trying to figure out which wire supplies power to the ECU. There doesn't appear to be a plain red wire. The red with black tracer goes to the ignition coil.

  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:20 PM

#18

I wish someone would upload the 2012 manual so that we can have the schematics and troubleshooting online so we have access to it. I'm at work right now.

+1. Someone = Yamaha. The Aussie site has manuals on line, but not for the 2012+ WR 450Fs. They have them for the WR250Fs though.

  • vlxjim

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:35 PM

#19

I know but not FI so its all different.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted October 07, 2013 - 01:38 PM

#20

Check the ground (black wire) at ECU connector. To make sure that the ground not been switched off somewhere.


There is direct continuity between the black wire on the programming connector and the black wire going into the ECU.

There is also direct continuity between the lavender wire on the programming connector and the lavender wire going into the ECU.

I know but not FI so its all different.


Yep.




 
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