My WR450 25 pound trim off...

Yamaha WR450F

434 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted July 02, 2014 - 09:13 AM


Couple questions. When I power up my bike (13 wr450) it sounds like the fuel pump cycles. What is it doing? If I remove my battery than what? Is this cycle not necessary? Also how do you use the tuner without the battery in the bike?

 

Without the battery, the pump uses the alternator as a power source, same as on an EFI YZ450, and it may take more than one kick to run up 45 psi so the injector can function properly.   The tuner has it's own batteries.



  • GP1K

Posted July 02, 2014 - 01:26 PM


Kind of off-topic here, but I went with a 45 lb trim off...I bought an '11 YZ250 2-stroke last night!! In good shape, low hours, lots of expensive aftermarket stuff.

Now, what to do with the WR...

 

Hey join the club! I trimmed about 35 lbs and bought '14 KTM 250 XCF-W!

 

I traded in my old DRZ400 and now I'm going to get my WR plated and it will be dual sport and the KTM my trail bike. So there's an idea for your WR, turn it into a dual sport, or a kick ass supermoto!



  • RockerYZWR

Posted July 02, 2014 - 05:56 PM


Hey join the club! I trimmed about 35 lbs and bought '14 KTM 250 XCF-W!

I traded in my old DRZ400 and now I'm going to get my WR plated and it will be dual sport and the KTM my trail bike. So there's an idea for your WR, turn it into a dual sport, or a kick ass supermoto!

Nice - I actually do have a plate for it (which I need to renew), and the SM idea has definitely crossed my mind, but those wheels are damn pricey.

Or...I've thought about either building a stripped down lighter weight WR or bringing it back to stock and selling it. If this YZ doesn't work for me, I will probably start removing some weight from the WR for racing and keep it.

Edited by RockerWR450, July 02, 2014 - 05:58 PM.


  • GP1K

Posted July 02, 2014 - 06:18 PM


Yeah I think if you go that route, dumping the e-start and all that, and get a rekluse it could be competitive. Seeing as the OP has his WR down to within 5 lbs or so of a YZF it seems quite doable. I really love the handling and power of the WR, but it's just too heavy for the tight single track most places I ride. I'm faster on a 250 and less tired doing it.



  • jimmym

Posted July 21, 2014 - 07:57 PM


I've been thinking about reducing the weight of my bike as well, but then remembered that the extra 20 pounds sitting around my midsection is part of the problem.  If I can lower my weight 20 lbs not only will I ride lighter... but maybe live longer to ride.

 

Now, if burning fat was as easy as removing a starter...

 

Quick update...

 

10 months later, I'm now 30 pounds lighter, and riding longer and stronger than anytime since my younger days!  A doctor visit in January came back with VERY high cholesterol levels, which I took very seriously and decided to lose weight and get in shape.  I feel like a new man at 170 lbs, and it almost feels like I'm riding a new bike.  

 

Anyway, although my health is the real benefit, it's sure feels great to take control of this WR beast and show the youngsters how it's done!



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 21, 2014 - 08:38 PM


Yeah I think if you go that route, dumping the e-start and all that, and get a rekluse it could be competitive. Seeing as the OP has his WR down to within 5 lbs or so of a YZF it seems quite doable. I really love the handling and power of the WR, but it's just too heavy for the tight single track most places I ride. I'm faster on a 250 and less tired doing it.

 

Double check the geometry on your WR.  They steer slowly and imprecisely if they are low in the rear.   A heavier spring and/or more rear preload and/or raising the forks in the triple clamps may quicken and improve the steering and make it a lot easier to ride.  The YZFs are sprung stiffer and a bit higher than the WRs.

 

Even after the weight reduction, my WR was still a bit tiring.  Once I adjusted the geometry, it became a lot easier to ride.  Now its down right flickable and its easy to ride exactly the line that you want.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, July 21, 2014 - 08:41 PM.


  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 21, 2014 - 08:45 PM


Without the battery, the pump uses the alternator as a power source, same as on an EFI YZ450, and it may take more than one kick to run up 45 psi so the injector can function properly.   The tuner has it's own batteries.

 

2 kicks always when cold.  Not 1, not 3.  Its always 2.   Mostly 1 kick when hot, even if it sits for 10 minutes.

 

I have no idea how they power the fuel pump when its kick started without the battery, but it works really well.

 

The tuner does have its own battery for power, but the ECM needs to be powered too.   The YZ ECMs are different from the WR ECMs.  The YZ ECM can be powered directly from the tuner.  The WR ECM tries to run the fuel pump when powered by the tuner, thus shutting the tuner down.  One thus needs to depower the fuel pump or provide the bike with a 12V source to use the tuner.

 

I'll write  this up in detail once I figure out which way works better.


Edited by MidlifeCrisisGuy, July 21, 2014 - 08:49 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted July 22, 2014 - 07:12 AM


I have no idea how they power the fuel pump when its kick started without the battery, but it works really well.


The pump is driven by the magneto, obviously. That's why the YZ packs a 140w stator.

If you were to disconnect the WR fuel pump and the power the system, I would expect that it would throw a code for the pump circuit immediately.



  • GP1K

Posted July 23, 2014 - 09:01 AM


Double check the geometry on your WR.  They steer slowly and imprecisely if they are low in the rear.   A heavier spring and/or more rear preload and/or raising the forks in the triple clamps may quicken and improve the steering and make it a lot easier to ride.  The YZFs are sprung stiffer and a bit higher than the WRs.

 

Even after the weight reduction, my WR was still a bit tiring.  Once I adjusted the geometry, it became a lot easier to ride.  Now its down right flickable and its easy to ride exactly the line that you want.

 

As a heavy guy, I'm quite familiar with what riding an undersprung bike feels like any time I swap with my buddies. Their bikes just won't turn for me if I'm sitting, because of the 'chopper effect'. I have to either stand or have my nose over the fender to get it to steer. Not so with my WR (sprung and valved for my weight) it will turn just fine with me sitting or standing, no chopper effect.

 

But for those of us unwilling to lose the magic button and lop all that associated weight off, there's no getting around the WRs heft in the really tight stuff, or the reciprocating mass of the 450 engine. My 250 weighs nearly 30 lbs less on paper, and it feels more like 40 or 50 lbs on the trail. IMO the WR is at it's best on faster, flowing single track, double track, jeep trails etc. It is not the right tool for the job if you frequent really tight technical single track, which is 80 or 90% of where I ride.



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 23, 2014 - 11:21 AM


It is not the right tool for the job if you frequent really tight technical single track, which is 80 or 90% of where I ride.

 

Me too.  I'll post up a video shortly.  I'm charging my GoPro as I speak.

 

I beg to differ on a number of points.

 

1) The areas I ride are littered with orange 4 stroke bikes, usually broken or needing maintenance !  If those orange bikes are the right mount for this terrain, so is my lightened WR450F.

 

2) My WR450F is beginning to rock the tight single track.  It has excellent, controllable power at all engine speeds, the chassis is about as good as it gets, etc.  Its only real shortcoming is weight and I have shown that one can make a significant dent in that issue fairly easily.

 

3) We had this exact discussion on the trail a few days ago.  The gist is that the WR450F is the perfect bike for a guy of my size and strength.  I've ridden my friends bored and stroked YZ250F (its now a 310.)  I'll take my WR450F over it any day.  If a 250 is the perfect bike for a 160 pound guy, and many say it is, the 450F is the right bike for me.

 

If your 250 is 30 pounds less than a WR450F, then my WR450F is only 8 pounds heavier than it.  Remember the WR450F uses the YZ250F chassis, so you can guess at how its starting to handle.  The next time you ride your 250, imagine it had 450 power in it.  Don't need 450 power in the woods ?  I agree not the top end power, but the torque and throttle response is outstanding.   Lifting the front wheel is never an issue and I bet I'm shifting gears half as often as you are.

 

My riding ability is improving rapidly and every week I get my WR tweaked a little better.  I may not be a pro, but its getting damn fun... which is the purpose of this endeavor, after all.  I just love twisting the throttle racing from tree to tree. 



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  • beezer

Posted July 24, 2014 - 07:27 AM


Fun is what it's all about.

 

Lots of different ways to get there.

 

I know when I'm coming up on a orange 4 stroke because I can smell anti-freeze.



  • GP1K

Posted July 24, 2014 - 01:20 PM


Me too.  I'll post up a video shortly.  I'm charging my GoPro as I speak.

 

I beg to differ on a number of points.

 

1) The areas I ride are littered with orange 4 stroke bikes, usually broken or needing maintenance !  If those orange bikes are the right mount for this terrain, so is my lightened WR450F.

 

2) My WR450F is beginning to rock the tight single track.  It has excellent, controllable power at all engine speeds, the chassis is about as good as it gets, etc.  Its only real shortcoming is weight and I have shown that one can make a significant dent in that issue fairly easily.

 

3) We had this exact discussion on the trail a few days ago.  The gist is that the WR450F is the perfect bike for a guy of my size and strength.  I've ridden my friends bored and stroked YZ250F (its now a 310.)  I'll take my WR450F over it any day.  If a 250 is the perfect bike for a 160 pound guy, and many say it is, the 450F is the right bike for me.

 

If your 250 is 30 pounds less than a WR450F, then my WR450F is only 8 pounds heavier than it.  Remember the WR450F uses the YZ250F chassis, so you can guess at how its starting to handle.  The next time you ride your 250, imagine it had 450 power in it.  Don't need 450 power in the woods ?  I agree not the top end power, but the torque and throttle response is outstanding.   Lifting the front wheel is never an issue and I bet I'm shifting gears half as often as you are.

 

My riding ability is improving rapidly and every week I get my WR tweaked a little better.  I may not be a pro, but its getting damn fun... which is the purpose of this endeavor, after all.  I just love twisting the throttle racing from tree to tree. 

 

I think it's cool what you've done with your bike, but you must realize it's not for everyone. Part of the reason I bought a WR is because I *want* an e-start bike. And I've found that people's idea of what constitutes 'tight single track' varies wildly. I've seen videos of 'tight single track' I could ride a Gold Wing down no problem. If you can't picture a situation where stalling your bike and having to kick it is a big problem, then clearly we're not riding the same terrain.

 

1) The areas where I ride are also littered with orange bikes, 2 and 4 strokes. But I can't say that I see them broken or 'needing maintenance'. They're out on the trails being ridden. Let's not turn this into brand bashing, ok? I'll just say if I had to bet on which of my bikes would last the longest with the least amount of maintenance, my money would be on my WR. But I do regular maintenance, so I'm not too worried about it. 

 

2) You say 'easily', I say with great sacrifice. And one that I (and I'll bet most WR owners) would be unwilling to make.

 

3) Personally, I don't buy into the whole 'this CC of bike is perfect for this weight of rider, while this one is not' concept. That might apply if you're talking about competitive racing like MX/SX where a 250 lbs guy racing a 250F against 140 lbs guys is going to be at a disadvantage, but for the average Joe trail rider, it's BS. My previous bike was CRF250X and I never weighed less than 220 lbs the entire time I owned it. And yet it never failed to pull me up any hill or around any trail. It certainly wasn't 'powerful' like my WR, but it wasn't 'underpowered' either. Maybe if all I did was climb huge hills at high elevation or ride deep sand, I might think differently. But I don't, and a 250F is plenty enough power, and my KTM has way more power than my old 250X did.

 

What you seem to be forgetting is reciprocating mass of the engine. Even if your 450 and my 250 weighed the exact same on paper, my 250 would still feel lighter everywhere when actually riding them. Just look at the KTM 250 and 350. They are virtually the same bike except the displacement. Yet every test/review where they've ridden both bikes back to back say the exact same thing: the 350 is more torquey and more power, but feels heavier than the 250 everywhere. Just like the 350 feels way lighter than a 450, even though it's only 11 lbs difference.

 

And no, I really don't need 450 power in the woods. Been there and done that for the last year and a half. Riding the 450 in tight woods quickly becomes an exercise in throttle/clutch control and managing that power. My KTM can wheelie off the throttle alone sitting in 3rd gear, no clutch. I have zero problem lofting the front over anything. It's not just a simple crack of the throttle like the WR, it takes a little more technique (aka skill) but easily does it.

 

No way I'm shifting twice as much either. It's a wide-ratio 250F, not a 125 smoker. I'm in 2nd or 3rd gear most of the time on my 250. I'm in 2nd or 3rd gear most of the time of my 450 as well. The only real difference is I rev my 250 out more, where I just short-shift the 450. But the total amount of shifting isn't all that much different.

 

So again, I do appreciate what you've done with your bike. There was a time I even pondered doing the same with mine, adding a rekluse to make the kick start only much less of an issue. But one swap with a buddy who has a WR250 and I knew I needed to be on a 250 again. It's just far easier to ride faster with much less energy expended in the process.

 

I have a dual-sport kit on order for my WR, should be here any day now. I think it will make an excellent dual sport bike. But for a dedicated trail bike on the terrain I ride, I have no doubt my 250 is a better choice for me, and I'm faster on it with less effort. YMMV



  • GP1K

Posted July 24, 2014 - 01:25 PM


Fun is what it's all about.

 

Lots of different ways to get there.

 

I know when I'm coming up on a orange 4 stroke because I can smell anti-freeze.

 

Funny... I boiled the shit out of my WR over half a dozen times on a snotty muddy single track about  a month back. My buddy's KTM 500 was fine. It has a fan. So does my KTM 250. They don't boil... imagine that.



  • beezer

Posted July 25, 2014 - 06:23 AM


Funny... I boiled the shit out of my WR over half a dozen times on a snotty muddy single track about  a month back. My buddy's KTM 500 was fine. It has a fan. So does my KTM 250. They don't boil... imagine that.

 

Okay I'll imagine that.



  • fixitandy

Posted July 27, 2014 - 02:55 AM


Funny... I boiled the shit out of my WR over half a dozen times on a snotty muddy single track about  a month back. My buddy's KTM 500 was fine. It has a fan. So does my KTM 250. They don't boil... imagine that.

C'mon man don't get all bent out of shape, every body knows KTM stands for "kettles that move" ROOSTA out!

  • GP1K

Posted July 28, 2014 - 07:47 AM


C'mon man don't get all bent out of shape, every body knows KTM stands for "kettles that move" ROOSTA out!

 

So that's why my WR boils while my KTM's fan turns on it doesn't. Makes total sense. :rolleyes:



  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted July 29, 2014 - 07:15 AM


Speaking of KTMs, the press loves to rave about the 350 EXC and the 350 XCF.

 

I'd like to point out that my WR now weighs the same as the 350 XCF (237 ish pounds, without fuel).  The press says the KTM 350s feel like 250s.   My WR is based on an actual 250, the YZ250F.  The 350 XCF makes a bit over 50 HP.   My WR is making about 40, but can be bumped to 50HP with YZ cams and a different map.  The KTMs have electric start and 6 speed transmissions.  I don't have a big need for either of those options.

 

One thing the WRs have is excellent suspension.  And they are virtually bulletproof.  Not to mention you can buy a used one for about half of a new KTM.



  • GP1K

Posted July 29, 2014 - 07:49 AM


Speaking of KTMs, the press loves to rave about the 350 EXC and the 350 XCF.

 

I'd like to point out that my WR now weighs the same as the 350 XCF (237 ish pounds, without fuel).  The press says the KTM 350s feel like 250s.   My WR is based on an actual 250, the YZ250F.  The 350 XCF makes a bit over 50 HP.   My WR is making about 40, but can be bumped to 50HP with YZ cams and a different map.  The KTMs have electric start and 6 speed transmissions.  I don't have a big need for either of those options.

 

One thing the WRs have is excellent suspension.  And they are virtually bulletproof.  Not to mention you can buy a used one for about half of a new KTM.

 

You're still forgetting reciprocating mass of the engine. Those 350s will always feel lighter and more nimble than your WR even at the same weight. Picking them up off the ground would feel the same, riding them would not.



  • stevethe

Posted July 29, 2014 - 08:07 AM


Speaking of KTMs, the press loves to rave about the 350 EXC and the 350 XCF.

 

I'd like to point out that my WR now weighs the same as the 350 XCF (237 ish pounds, without fuel).  The press says the KTM 350s feel like 250s.   My WR is based on an actual 250, the YZ250F.  The 350 XCF makes a bit over 50 HP.   My WR is making about 40, but can be bumped to 50HP with YZ cams and a different map.  The KTMs have electric start and 6 speed transmissions.  I don't have a big need for either of those options.

 

One thing the WRs have is excellent suspension.  And they are virtually bulletproof.  Not to mention you can buy a used one for about half of a new KTM.

 

You also forgot the new KTM 350 are gutless on the bottom.



  • GP1K

Posted July 29, 2014 - 08:28 AM


You also forgot the new KTM 350 are gutless on the bottom.

 

Define 'gutless' and compared to what, a 450? Derp.  :rolleyes:







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