My WR450 25 pound trim off...

Yamaha WR450F

434 replies to this topic
  • MidlifeCrisisGuy

Posted September 03, 2014 - 10:19 AM


GP1K: maybe you don't get it, but I don't have to justify anything to you.  You are not the judge, you don't have all the knowledge and quite frankly, you don't contribute anything to this forum.

 

I want cams because I want them.  I didn't mess with maps because I didn't want to.  Rocker wants a YZ as well as a WR.   Some people buy KTMs.  Jonesy bought a GYTR head for his WR.  Krannie has cams, a ported head and YZ suspension.  NONE OF THIS IS ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS TO JUDGE.  We ride what we ride, we ride how we ride and we are here to discuss BIKES, not the shit that you drag into the thread and certainly not what you think is right.

 

Got it ?  If we have a question for you, we'll ask.

 

I started a thread for you.  Please go there and discuss whatever you want to discuss.


Edited by Bryan Bosch, September 03, 2014 - 10:30 AM.


  • William1

Posted September 03, 2014 - 10:26 AM


TT owns Thumpertalk. All threads started on TT are property of TT and not the poster. If you do not like hearing peoples opinons, then put them on 'ignore'. Vulgarity and 'fits' will not be tolerated and they are against TT's TOS. Personal attacks are not allowed. Calm opinions, right or wrong, are allowed and in fact, encouraged.



  • GP1K

Posted September 03, 2014 - 10:32 AM


GP1K: maybe you don't get it, but I don't have to justify anything to you.  You are not the judge, you don't have all the knowledge and quite frankly, you don't contribute anything to this forum.

 

I want cams because I want them.  I didn't mess with maps because I didn't want to.  Rocker wants a YZ as well as a WR.   Some people buy KTMs.  Jonesy bought a GYTR head for his WR.  Krannie has cams, a ported head and YZ suspension.  NONE OF THIS IS ANY OF YOUR F**CKING BUSINESS TO JUDGE.  We ride what we ride, we ride how we ride and we are here to discuss BIKES, not the $hit that you drag into the thread and certainly not what you think is right.

 

Got it ?  If we have a question for you, we'll ask.

 

I started a thread for you.  Please go there and discuss whatever you want to discuss.

 

Sorry my mistake. I thought your goal was to build the best 'tight woods' bike possible out of your WR. I now realize it's all just a big science experiment for you to tinker on, and whether or not any of those mods make any sense or have any practical application out in said tight woods is totally irrelevant.

 

Oh and IIRC, Jonesy rides wide open deserts and monster hills, not tight woods. And Krannie has an older WR where cams were a common mod (that bike needed them) and the suspension was also a known weak link, and he has 'fixed' that by swapping forks, another common mod for that bike.

 

I totally get why those guys did what they did to their bikes. You, OTOH.... not so much.



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 11:29 AM


Yes of course at some point you can make it lopsided enough where the bike matters. But in your example, that's probably how extreme you'd have to go: a pro on a TT230 vs you on your WR450. Anything even remotely close and the pro smokes you, no offense. There's a big race here in WA every year called the Desert 100. It's two 50 mile laps across the eastern WA desert, which is about as close to SoCal as you're gonna get in WA. Ricky Russell won it last year in commanding fashion, stomping the competition on his personal YZ250F (not his usual GNCC bike). It had also been intentionally geared by his team for a modest top speed. Point being, he smoked a lot of seriously fast guys on 450s, 250/300 2Ts, etc. in a desert race that definitely favors the bigger bikes. He's just that good.

Open desert with big whoops is kind of a cherry picked example of pure speed where suspension matters a LOT. Try some tight single track where that's not as much of an issue and I guarantee a pro rides circles around you on a TTR230. And since MLCG says all he rides is woods/single track, that's what's relevant here. And in those conditions, rider/skill makes more of a difference than the bike.


Well Ofcourse a pro will smoke me on a comparible bike. Ofcourse he's a PRO. I already told you yesterday I get your point. Dam 2 days is to much arguing for me not to be married to you.

  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 11:49 AM


Your taking the 230 challenge too literally. He's saying a good rider on a underpowered under spring bike can use his skills to maintain speed through the turns. Maximizing traction. Never touching the brakes. Crawl up snotty rutty hills without chopping the throttle at the sight of a rut will be a faster more competent rider. Go to a riding school. Learn to ride your 450 like a trials bike and maximize the power it has. It's got plenty. Low end snap just makes you spin your tire more


I take it literally because yesterday that's what him and I were talking about. If its not literally a ttr230. Then yes it's rider on a well sprung well powered bike. Like when he said Ricky russel won on a 250f. Well I see that point. Good bikes. But when we are talking about a trail bike (ttr230). Then no it won't happen. My first post to him was about my wife's ttr230. So yes I took it literally a ttr230.

Edited by Jonesy11, September 03, 2014 - 11:51 AM.


  • GP1K

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:12 PM


I take it literally because yesterday that's what him and I were talking about. If its not literally a ttr230. Then yes it's rider on a well sprung well powered bike. Like when he said Ricky russel won on a 250f. Well I see that point. Good bikes. But when we are talking about a trail bike (ttr230). Then no it won't happen. My first post to him was about my wife's ttr230. So yes I took it literally a ttr230.

 

Well since we're going there again... I stand by my statement that in the woods/single track type riding, a skilled rider on TTR230 would absolutely smoke your average weekend warrior on ANY bike said warrior may choose to ride. You then changed the venue to Baja or whatever with flat out desert and huge whoops. That is not at all where I ride, nor were MLCG claims he rides, so it's irrelevant to the discussion and point I was making.

 

So yes, quite literally a TTR230 with a skilled rider would smoke an average rider on ANY bike they might ride in the woods. In Baja, YMMV.



  • revelc

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:21 PM


I want cams because I want them. I didn't mess with maps because I didn't want to.

ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1409775587.817776.jpg

Since you believe you are a wizard Ill use this quote from Harry Potter.

"There again, progress for progress's sake must be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between old and new, between permanence and change, between tradition and innovation because some changes will be for the better, while others will come, in the fullness of time, to be recognised as errors of judgement. "


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, September 03, 2014 - 12:34 PM.


  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:25 PM


Well since we're going there again... I stand by my statement that in the woods/single track type riding, a skilled rider on TTR230 would absolutely smoke your average weekend warrior on ANY bike said warrior may choose to ride. You then changed the venue to Baja or whatever with flat out desert and huge whoops. That is not at all where I ride, nor were MLCG claims he rides, so it's irrelevant to the discussion and point I was making.

So yes, quite literally a TTR230 with a skilled rider would smoke an average rider on ANY bike they might ride in the woods. In Baja, YMMV.

Well I guess I see where we went wrong. I live in so cal. Most are single track is mixed in with 2 1/2 foot whoops and hill climbs then were into our local mountain single track. A 100 mile loop from my house takes me through every riding condition available in 1 ride. Im guessing where you ride. Must only be single track. I'm guessing. I was just going of wife's ttr230 and my local riding. Yes I see that if it was 60 miles of single track with no 3' vertical rocks and so on. Then I see your point. But who would want single track with no hill climbs or whoops or vertical 3' rocks Seems kinda boring to just ride around on a nice single track.

And going off a weekend warrior which I am not.

Edited by Jonesy11, September 03, 2014 - 12:32 PM.


  • cracker please

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:35 PM


I liked it better when the discussion was about how YZ cams make 60 hp in a WR.



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:38 PM


I liked it better when the discussion was about how YZ cams make 60 hp in a WR.


I wonder when I get my gytr head and cam if the cam will be the same as a older yz cam

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 12:43 PM


ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1409775587.817776.jpg

Since you believe you are a wizard Ill use this quote from Harry Potter.

"There again, progress for progress's sake must be discouraged, for our tried and tested traditions often require no tinkering. A balance, then, between old and new, between permanence and change, between tradition and innovation because some changes will be for the better, while others will come, in the fullness of time, to be recognised as errors of judgement. "




2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Your the only dirt bike rider I know that can quote Harry potter!!

Edited by Jonesy11, September 03, 2014 - 01:19 PM.


  • KennyMc

Posted September 03, 2014 - 01:51 PM


Your the only dirt bike rider I know that can quote Harry potter!!

There is another who will remain nameless as he continues to switch his "user name" :devil:



  • KennyMc

Posted September 03, 2014 - 02:01 PM


 

I didn't mess with maps because I didn't want to. 

 

So you are not going to do any "fuel delivery" changes on the bike even when you go to new cams?  Have you opened up the breathing on the bike?  Being as you will be riding in tight woods I would think the bike is going to naturaly run hot as they are lean from the beginning.  Increasing the performance and breathing without a corresponding increase in fuel is a recipe for disaster.  IMO :ride:



  • cracker please

Posted September 03, 2014 - 02:16 PM


Yeah, I mean if you were running the FMF map and installed the GYTR head, you would probly want to change it to the GYTR ported head map.



  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 02:25 PM


Yeah, I mean if you were running the FMF map and installed the GYTR head, you would probly want to change it to the GYTR ported head map.

Definitely

  • revelc

Posted September 03, 2014 - 03:23 PM


There is another who will remain nameless as he continues to switch his "user name" :devil:

Wut?

Are you inferring that I am using multiple usernames as if they are Horcruxes?


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, September 03, 2014 - 03:29 PM.


  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 03, 2014 - 05:19 PM


For starters, it feels like we have the same conversation going in several threads, which is confusing for everyone, myself included. So yes, we are  way off-topic for this particular thread.

 

I bring up rider ability purely because you seem set on solving riding issues with bike mods (YZ cams) when it's really a rider/skill issue. Early on I asked you exactly what that mod was going to do for you, how was it going to help you go faster in the woods? You ignored the question, and it's definitely a legitimate one. You did mention something about 'holding 3rd up hills' like somehow more top end was going to help with that. Do you really, honestly think the reason you're not getting up a hill in a gear you think you should is because your bike is lacking in power?

 

You're a tinkerer... I get it. But how does that explain your stubborn refusal to tune your FI, one of the easiest, best and NECESSARY (if you've uncorked your bike) mods you can do. Nobody in their right mind would uncork a carb'ed bike and not rejet it and expect it to run right. FI is no different. Yet you flatly ignore everyone telling you to do that, and plow ahead with your cams thing, also steeped in denial that cams designed to increase top end also tend to decrease bottom end. Your 'theories' fly in the face of logic, common sense and the experience of many, many people ho have been there and done that already. And yet you're surprised and get all pissy when someone calls you out on it?

 

So no, I won't take it elsewhere, and I won't stop calling you out either.

 

Dude, you are so clueless it's not really even funny.

 

I can't keep up with my 165lb buddy on his CRF250R with my stock WR motor,  cause I weight 70lbs more than him.

I out brake him, out traction him, and out climb him, but once we both get enough traction, I cannot keep up.

The stock WR is SLOW SLOW SLOW, even uncorked.

 

I am used to riding CRF450R's, KX450f's, and 450 SX-F's as my primary fun bike. 

I can not longer kick start 25 times a day with an arthritic knee, so I chose to go all e-start with all my bikes.

 

 

Now I have the task of trying to make the e-start bikes keep up with the track bikes.

It takes a LOT of work to get a bike that is 35-50lbs heavier, down 10-15 hp, to be 'competitive'. 

 

No, I would not race my WR, under any conditions. It's too heavy. 

But racing is mostly waiting, not riding. Waiting for your moto. Waiting for you number. Waiting for the next event. Etc etc.  All for a few hours a month of racing. 

I choose to no longer race, I choose to ride.

 

Now, heres the HUGE flaw in this extremely old, extremely inaccurate argument of 'the bike is not as important as the rider'......

 

-  NOT ONE SINGLE SX PROFESSIONAL RIDER TRYS TO MAKE HIS BIKE LESS FAST IN ORDER TO WIN, NO MATTER HOW GOOD A RIDER HE IS.

-  NOT ONE SINGLE AMA DISTRICT OFF-ROAD RACER TRYS TO MAKE IT BIKE LESS FAST IN ORDER TO WIN

-  NOT ONE SINGLE PLAY RIDER CANNOT BENEFIT FROM PROPERLY TUNED SUSPENSION AND MOTOR.

 

 

So, if its all the rider, why are they all wasting so much money?

 

I occasionally ride with guys way faster than me. 

I don't mean guys that 'tire me out' or that 'ride circles around me'. 

I mean guys that are GONE seconds after you start. 

Can't see them, can't find them. FAST #1 plate holders in their class.

There is nothing I can do to my bike that will allow me to ride along side them.

There is also nothing I can do to my bike that would allow me TO FLY either.

No one would think there is such a thing.

 

SO WHY ARE YOU COMPARING TRAIL RIDERS TO PROFESSIONAL AND MAKING THEM FEEL STUPID FOR TRYING TO GET FASTER ANYWAY THEY CAN?

 

...it's because you have a poor self image of yourself, and can't stand to see others doing things you can't do/afford/understand, or whatever.

 

Keep it to yourself and curb the hate.



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted September 03, 2014 - 05:25 PM


Well since we're going there again... I stand by my statement that in the woods/single track type riding, a skilled rider on TTR230 would absolutely smoke your average weekend warrior on ANY bike said warrior may choose to ride. You then changed the venue to Baja or whatever with flat out desert and huge whoops. That is not at all where I ride, nor were MLCG claims he rides, so it's irrelevant to the discussion and point I was making.

 

So yes, quite literally a TTR230 with a skilled rider would smoke an average rider on ANY bike they might ride in the woods

Absolute proof of your clueless-ness

 

I would love to see the goofy little trails you must ride, where 13 hp and no suspension and 45 hp and real suspension have no difference

 

Again, if that were true, all pro riders would ride TTR230's to save money.

You can't possibly need anymore.

 

...and on the subject of 'weekend warrior'.......why do you use such an insulting term to describe a whole forum of people you don't know, and have never ridden with, and can quite obviously kick you ass in the dirt?

 

You should come down here and ride with us fluffly little weekend warriors.

 

https://www.youtube....nda ridge trail

 

 

 

 

I ride with both of these dudes every weekend.

 

My God dude, you are digging yourself deeper and deeper into this completely farcical argument!


Edited by Kah Ran Nee, September 03, 2014 - 05:31 PM.


  • Jonesy11

Posted September 03, 2014 - 05:26 PM


Dude, you are so clueless it's not really even funny.

I can't keep up with my 165lb buddy on his CRF250R with my stock WR motor, cause I weight 70lbs more than him.
I out brake him, out traction him, and out climb him, but once we both get enough traction, I cannot keep up.
The stock WR is SLOW SLOW SLOW, even uncorked.

I am used to riding CRF450R's, KX450f's, and 450 SX-F's as my primary fun bike.
I can not longer kick start 25 times a day with an arthritic knee, so I chose to go all e-start with all my bikes.


Now I have the task of trying to make the e-start bikes keep up with the track bikes.
It takes a LOT of work to get a bike that is 35-50lbs heavier, down 10-15 hp, to be 'competitive'.

No, I would not race my WR, under any conditions. It's too heavy.
But racing is mostly waiting, not riding. Waiting for your moto. Waiting for you number. Waiting for the next event. Etc etc. All for a few hours a month of racing.
I choose to no longer race, I choose to ride.

Now, heres the HUGE flaw in this extremely old, extremely inaccurate argument of 'the bike is not as important as the rider'......

- NOT ONE SINGLE SX PROFESSIONAL RIDER TRYS TO MAKE HIS BIKE LESS FAST IN ORDER TO WIN, NO MATTER HOW GOOD A RIDER HE IS.
- NOT ONE SINGLE AMA DISTRICT OFF-ROAD RACER TRYS TO MAKE IT BIKE LESS FAST IN ORDER TO WIN
- NOT ONE SINGLE PLAY RIDER CANNOT BENEFIT FROM PROPERLY TUNED SUSPENSION AND MOTOR.


So, if its all the rider, why are they all wasting so much money?

I occasionally ride with guys way faster than me.
I don't mean guys that 'tire me out' or that 'ride circles around me'.
I mean guys that are GONE seconds after you start.
Can't see them, can't find them. FAST #1 plate holders in their class.
There is nothing I can do to my bike that will allow me to ride along side them.
There is also nothing I can do to my bike that would allow me TO FLY either.
No one would think there is such a thing.

SO WHY ARE YOU COMPARING TRAIL RIDERS TO PROFESSIONAL AND MAKING THEM FEEL STUPID FOR TRYING TO GET FASTER ANYWAY THEY CAN?

...it's because you have a poor self image of yourself, and can't stand to see others doing things you can't do/afford/understand, or whatever.

Keep it to yourself and curb the hate.


Could not of said it better. Thank you.

  • revelc

Posted September 03, 2014 - 05:44 PM


You should come down here and ride with us fluffly little weekend warriors.

I like your video. I bet those are fun rides.



You should all come play in the woods of East Texas sometime.

No, that's not me. But I do ride the same trail and its pretty unforgiving.

Edited for potato


2014 WRR R.I.Pieces
2012 WR450F ECU, GYTR tuner, Yoshi RS4, MSR rad guards, Cycra Pros, and a growing wish list...

Edited by revelc, September 03, 2014 - 05:46 PM.






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