All new class structure idea



30 replies to this topic
  • emerybrian

Posted August 29, 2013 - 07:12 AM

#21

Unless the classes are changed at Lorettas, what people call “sandbagging” will always be present.  A lot of fast kids don’t race B or C locally, instead racing schoolboy or collegeboy classes to avoid advancement.  My idea is get rid of the current A/B/C all together.

 

For Amateur Nationals:

Under 14, 250 cc max

Age 15, 250 & open

Age 16, 250 & open

Age 17, 250 & open

18+, 250 & open

 

Then for local:

Beginner any CC (1st year racers)

Amateur 250 & Open (should be biggest classes)

Expert 250 & Open

 

Still would need some extra classes so anybody could race 1 bike in 2 classes, but this would be better for the following reasons:

 

-A super-fast 16 year old could race expert class instead of dominating B class for years

-No more beginner class national championship

-Doesn’t “fastest 16 year old rider in the country” sound like it actually means something vs say “schoolboy II champ”?

-Rider's goal will be to race expert class



  • Sheriff245

Posted August 29, 2013 - 07:55 AM

#22

Unless the classes are changed at Lorettas, what people call “sandbagging” will always be present.  A lot of fast kids don’t race B or C locally, instead racing schoolboy or collegeboy classes to avoid advancement.  My idea is get rid of the current A/B/C all together.

 

For Amateur Nationals:

Under 14, 250 cc max

Age 15, 250 & open

Age 16, 250 & open

Age 17, 250 & open

18+, 250 & open

 

Then for local:

Beginner any CC (1st year racers)

Amateur 250 & Open (should be biggest classes)

Expert 250 & Open

 

Still would need some extra classes so anybody could race 1 bike in 2 classes, but this would be better for the following reasons:

 

-A super-fast 16 year old could race expert class instead of dominating B class for years

-No more beginner class national championship

-Doesn’t “fastest 16 year old rider in the country” sound like it actually means something vs say “schoolboy II champ”?

-Rider's goal will be to race expert class

Some good points here. Though you'd still have the same problem of riders staying in Amateur to stack up wins instead of moving up. Also, with only 3 big bike classes at the local level, you can expect to have to run qualifiers pretty fast in the Amateur classes.

 

I like the age classes at the National level. Gets rid of some problems since you are "forced" into a class. Problem is, a 17 year old beginner and and aspiring pro with 13 years of MX experience would be racing against each other. At a National like LL's, this is not a problem, but at the local level it could be dangerous.

 

Keep the ideas and opinions coming, I really like hearing from everybody on this subject.



  • tribalbc

Posted August 29, 2013 - 08:05 AM

#23

Or they could do something as simple as BMX's system.....

 

 

Beginning in 2013, Novice riders will need 10 wins to advance to Intermediate (or Girl for females). Also, Intermediate riders will advance to Expert with 20 wins as an Intermediate. Any rider with 20-24 wins at the end of the 2012 season will be credited with 19 wins and will advance to Expert upon his next win. USA BMX will instruct their Track Operators to pay special attention to anyone “sandbagging” (trying to avoid getting that last win), so they can let us know to move those riders up to the next proficiency.



  • Ringo25

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:31 AM

#24

My Dad and I have been talking about this forever.  Like since we started using transponders years ago.  2 problems.  In an area the riders are slower than say a regional and nationally, so some riders would be moved down which will upset some people who call them selves a C rider who really are a D rider, B rider fast as a c rider and so on.  Next is the opposite which is the people getting bumped up who say want to do regional and I national stuff.  I dont know if you guys looked at the times at Lorettas this year but the C rider who won his class could have competed in the A class and done quite well same goes for the b class.  

 

The way I see this working would be that it would be an unsanctioned ama event.  But then how do you get the riders out there to race at a race that doesn't matter?  I would love to own my own track someday and try this though its a great idea that i have been thinking about forever.



  • Sheriff245

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:39 AM

#25

My Dad and I have been talking about this forever.  Like since we started using transponders years ago.  2 problems.  In an area the riders are slower than say a regional and nationally, so some riders would be moved down which will upset some people who call them selves a C rider who really are a D rider, B rider fast as a c rider and so on.  Next is the opposite which is the people getting bumped up who say want to do regional and I national stuff.  I dont know if you guys looked at the times at Lorettas this year but the C rider who won his class could have competed in the A class and done quite well same goes for the b class.  

 

The way I see this working would be that it would be an unsanctioned ama event.  But then how do you get the riders out there to race at a race that doesn't matter?  I would love to own my own track someday and try this though its a great idea that i have been thinking about forever.

 

I think amateur racing should be fun. The idea would be to offer a different type of events for those who share the same conception about mx racing. Make it different in the way of entertainment on Saturday nights or something so families can experience something other than serious competition. The serious people could still attend AMA or CMRC events, or do both if they like.

 

Since there would be no assigned classes prior to qualifying, riders would have nothing to be upset at except themselves if they don't make it to their regular class. Skill levels within a class would be much more even than they are now, making the racing more exciting and more safe at the same time.



  • Ringo25

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:42 AM

#26

Do any of you guys race AMA events or are they all just random local races that are unsanctioned by anyone? Around here there doesn't seem to be too much of a sand bagging issue overall. Here is how the rules for the C class read in my district's rule book:

 

"A Novice rider will be allowed to stay in the class for the season at which time their promotion will be calculated by the AMA 15% RPV method. Any Novice rider dominating the class may be promoted at any time per referee or CNYMRA Board. Novice riders my self promote at any time."

 

It doesn't seem too bad to me. Sure there are some sand baggers once in a while, but all in all it isn't too bad. Since this is an AMA sanctioned district, if they try to jump districts and race other ones their results still count towards their RPV percentage. The only way they can avoid being bumped up is to start DNFing races.

 

I feel like no matter what, the slower riders are going to complain that the guys winning are sandbagging. So you force the top 5 out of a class and now you have a new set of 5 guys winning every week. The guys in the back of the pack will complain and you will force the new 5 guys out and another set of 5 guys will be winning and so on and so on. Everyone cannot be a winner. If you want to win the C class or D class, the best way in my opinion is to practice and get faster.
 

That should work but i have had my dnfs counted and even though i marked out i could still race at that certain level.  It is important the the people entering the data to get it correct but at my area they just put in your place regardless of your dnf which allows people who could win the pro class to compete in the b class.



  • Ringo25

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:46 AM

#27

I think amateur racing should be fun. The idea would be to offer a different type of events for those who share the same conception about mx racing. Make it different in the way of entertainment on Saturday nights or something so families can experience something other than serious competition. The serious people could still attend AMA or CMRC events, or do both if they like.

 

Since there would be no assigned classes prior to qualifying, riders would have nothing to be upset at except themselves if they don't make it to their regular class. Skill levels within a class would be much more even than they are now, making the racing more exciting and more safe at the same time.

Would be if you can get people to show up.  I know of a few tracks doing some local week day races that they stop doing or dont do as much because of the turn out.  AMA races get better exposure than just a race put up by a track owner.  Facebook is making it better for promotion but you just dont get the competition like say ama events do



  • slomojo

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:47 AM

#28

The Hare Scramble series I run uses speed %.The fastest lap on race day is 100% every one elses laps are averaged off of that.There are maximum percentiles for each class.A person breaks out by 10% either in one race or over 5 races.After 6 he is locked in for the season.It works pretty good,but sandbaggers are crafty,and will watch their percents so that they smile with a trophy.

In my opinion we need to lower break out to five % and apoint a speed Nazi to inforce it.

  • Ringo25

Posted August 29, 2013 - 10:51 AM

#29

The Hare Scramble series I run uses speed %.The fastest lap on race day is 100% every one elses laps are averaged off of that.There are maximum percentiles for each class.A person breaks out by 10% either in one race or over 5 races.After 6 he is locked in for the season.It works pretty good,but sandbaggers are crafty,and will watch their percents so that they smile with a trophy.

In my opinion we need to lower break out to five % and apoint a speed Nazi to inforce it.

Thats a clever system.  I have to say multiple people have mentioned that sandbaggers purposely slow down in order to stay in a class. I just dont understand that.  I know i have always been a person who likes the challenge and racing against faster people makes you better period.  Slowing down in order to beat a bunch of nobodys is just jaw dropping to me and i cannot believe that people limit their potential like that.  Not to mention the wasted time not getting better.



  • slomojo

Posted August 29, 2013 - 11:25 AM

#30

Thats a clever system.  I have to say multiple people have mentioned that sandbaggers purposely slow down in order to stay in a class. I just dont understand that.  I know i have always been a person who likes the challenge and racing against faster people makes you better period.  Slowing down in order to beat a bunch of nobodys is just jaw dropping to me and i cannot believe that people limit their potential like that.  Not to mention the wasted time not getting better.


There are a lot of people that refuse to grow up.

  • emerybrian

Posted August 30, 2013 - 07:36 AM

#31

... I have to say multiple people have mentioned that sandbaggers purposely slow down in order to stay in a class. I just dont understand that.  ...

 

This is how MX Sports wants it to be.  250B class is a big deal, so riders are encouraged to stay in the slower classes.  Riders that could qualify for Pro nationals get more exposure to PC/Geico/TLD by staying the B class for years.  And since this is the preferred way for the top guys it trickles down through everyone.  If Shane McElrath raced B for years and now has a good pro ride, can you blame others for doing the same thing?







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