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KTM 300 XC-W 2015


Last review by 2strokes_rule
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* * - - - 53 votes

Why KTM motorcycles are ruining off-road motorcycle riding

Miscellaneous Its Broken KTM 300 XC-W 2015


3128 replies to this topic
  • Keira2142

    TT Bronze Member

124 posts
Location: Australia

Posted October 28, 2013 - 01:00 AM


I never said he didn't know how to ride.  I said a bike is gonna handle differently under Krannie than an average size rider.  His opinion is very relevant to a guy his size. 

 

You people are just nasty...  and I thought I was a dick.  :p  :lol:    

 

Yeah you did really. Leaving all your weight ont he back wheel is one of hte stupidest things a rider can do on a bike unless you're in super slick conditions or over fast and rough terrain.



  • Jeff aka Travolta
6,351 posts
Location: California
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Posted October 28, 2013 - 01:16 AM


 Krannie may have started this silly thead...  but it took many other witnits to drag it into 50+ pages.  dhorse.gif  hump.gif


Edited by Jeff aka BOLT, October 28, 2013 - 01:35 AM.

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  • hawaiidirtrider

    Get Help Now

9,880 posts
Location: Hawaii
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Posted October 28, 2013 - 01:40 AM


0.jpg

 

This thread can never die....   :eek:


0.jpg

 

This thread can never die....   :eek:



  • Keira2142

    TT Bronze Member

124 posts
Location: Australia

Posted October 28, 2013 - 01:52 AM


0.jpg

 

This thread can never die....   :eek:


0.jpg

 

This thread can never die....   :eek:

 

I dunno I think it kind of died a couple pages ago. Now everyone seems to be just taking potshots at eachother its doens't have much to do with how ktm is ruining everyones lives.



  • Kah Ran Nee
24,772 posts
Location: California
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Posted October 28, 2013 - 05:53 AM


I suspect...  that Krannies body position being a huge man makes his opinion on bike handling less valuable to the average rider.  He makes a WR450 look like a 125.  I know he prides himself on setting up his bikes well including suspension.  But even sprung for his weight...  and tuned for the handling he likes in the terrain he rides...  he has a large mass that is taller and further back on any bike than most riders.  He rides closer to or over the rear axle depending on body position at any moment.  This changes things big time.  A twitchy Honda will smooth out under him...  a smooth turning KTM will push and feel unresponsive in the front.

 

Thats my opinion...  no interest in the debate or name calling.  Save that for someone else.   :prof:   hump.gif

 

What? Me large?  Pffffftttt......

...but to be fair, I'm comparing to other bikes, not to other riders....

 

739950_733457476671426_202920697_o_zps91



  • Kah Ran Nee
24,772 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 06:06 AM


Krannie you sure build some nice bikes with lots of mods. Did you happen to let a KTM Fan Boy ride this bike to see if they felt the same shitty response and handling that you did? I remember you posting this bike and some of your other builds on another forum and thought WOW you go all out. I'm curious though really if anyone other than you felt the same after riding the KTM.

Did you take the KTM to the scrape talk yard and have it crushed, sell it, trade it? Where is this POS bike?

 

Sold both bikes via craigslist. 

Both buyers were dumbfounded when they saw the low hours and trickery and extra parts.

 

Yes, I let a D37 open expert ride it.

He rides everything but KTM. 

His words " dang, that thing takes way too much effort to ride fast".

I also let most of my trail riding buddies ride it, most who ride older KTM's......but they are under 30, under 200lbs, and under 5'10", so they of course thought is was ok accept for not being able to drift with the rear wheel when turning, and the f'ed up power delivery.

 

The 500 was obviously a serious lemon. Even the dealer I bought it from (TO powersports) was dumbfounded. But he was directed by KTM USA not to change any ignition parts, period.

This is right when KTM was hit with a dozen nasty fines from CARB and EPA for letting dealers change maps and change ECU's on XC-W's and EXC's...which was then deemed VERBOTTEN for any dealer to do. I was stuck in the middle. They would replace my Throttle bodie (TPS, MAP sensors dying from heat), but would not re-map or re-ecu. The JD Jetting piggyback tuner helped, but it was still so far off from running well, or even running safe, that it was nuts. The throttle response was not linear. You could go up a hill in 3rd gear at 1/2 throttle one minute, and have to go up the same hill in 2nd at full throttle the next. The bike was borderline dangerous. It would loop out in first gear, then require tons of clutch to get moving the next time. Totally random power.

KTM USA would not return my calls or emails after a certain point. 

 

That's when I made the decision to dump it while it still looked good (after replacing rims, bars, plastics, skidplate, front disc and pads, and all my ergo stuff).



  • Rack

    TT Bronze Member

339 posts
Location: California

Posted October 28, 2013 - 06:11 AM


Sold both bikes via craigslist.
Both buyers were dumbfounded when they saw the low hours and trickery and extra parts.

Yes, I let a D37 open expert ride it.
He rides everything but KTM.
His words " dang, that thing takes way too much effort to ride fast".
I also let most of my trail riding buddies ride it, most who ride older KTM's......but they are under 30, under 200lbs, and under 5'10", so they of course thought is was ok accept for not being able to drift with the rear wheel when turning, and the f'ed up power delivery.

The 500 was obviously a serious lemon. Even the dealer I bought it from (TO powersports) was dumbfounded. But he was directed by KTM USA not to change any ignition parts, period.
This is right when KTM was hit with a dozen nasty fines from CARB and EPA for letting dealers change maps and change ECU's on XC-W's and EXC's...which was then deemed VERBOTTEN for any dealer to do. I was stuck in the middle. They would replace my Throttle bodie (TPS, MAP sensors dying from heat), but would not re-map or re-ecu. The JD Jetting piggyback tuner helped, but it was still so far off from running well, or even running safe, that it was nuts. The throttle response was not linear. You could go up a hill in 3rd gear at 1/2 throttle one minute, and have to go up the same hill in 2nd at full throttle the next. The bike was borderline dangerous. It would loop out in first gear, then require tons of clutch to get moving the next time. Totally random power.
KTM USA would not return my calls or emails after a certain point.

That's when I made the decision to dump it while it still looked good (after replacing rims, bars, plastics, skidplate, front disc and pads, and all my ergo stuff).


Very unfortunate for you. You went all out to make it work and it just didn't it. I get it. I'm fortunate to not have those issues.

  • handreasen
1,612 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted October 28, 2013 - 07:42 AM


Krannie, in all fairness and respect for your situation, you must relise your physical stature far exceeds the norm for engineering peramitures of most mc companies, and I understand that your riding skills exceed many others here. With the endless push to lighten bikes, provide nimble handling and ergonomics, as well as performance your stature unfortunetly works against you. So with that said, I am quite understanding of your requirements to highly modify your bikes, and the frustration you go through attempting to find a fit in perfomence as well as ergonomics.

Now, I have owned 60 mc in my life, and have had lemons from time to time, ones I couldn't get dialed in to my liking, etc, etc. But no brand is perfect, without their issues, yr/yr/ model/model,etc. You again must temper your attitude you are not the typical rider that bikes are designed for! That is really not the fault of the Manufacturer, They don't build bikes one fits all. You know that as well!

I have had lemons, bikes that just didn't perform as well, break all the time, etc, etc. They have been all brands going back to the mid sixties, Jap, Euro, Spanish, Italian, German, US, etc. But I wouldn't go so far to say they are trash, because they usually identified their issues and improved on them. Their is no "HOLY GRAIL OF MC". And of coarse, that issue is very subjective, I like brunets, some like blondes. etc.

I have found over the years when it comes to brand loyalties, whether it is cars, mc, snowmobiles, skis, etc, etc, insulting ones brand is like insulting his wife. Is it really necessary?

I hope you find something that works for you so you may enjoy the sport that I have loved for 50 years, when the bike works its' better then sex

Good Luck!

  • Kah Ran Nee
24,772 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 08:55 AM


The unbelievably customized WR(YZ really) 450F is working incredibly well for me.

This is a favorite local 'sit down' trail that's very tight, as a few 'rock fairies' come visit it now and then, and is a real test of power breadth and handling.

It is by no means an 'extreme' trail, it's just flow-y and fun. We are flying down this trail!

Sorry for the cam angle, still working on it.

 


Edited by Krannie, October 28, 2013 - 09:01 AM.


  • YHGEORGE

    Get Help Now

6,523 posts
Location: Texas

Posted October 28, 2013 - 09:15 AM


Krannie, in all fairness and respect for your situation, you must relise your physical stature far exceeds the norm for engineering peramitures of most mc companies, and I understand that your riding skills exceed many others here. With the endless push to lighten bikes, provide nimble handling and ergonomics, as well as performance your stature unfortunetly works against you. So with that said, I am quite understanding of your requirements to highly modify your bikes, and the frustration you go through attempting to find a fit in perfomence as well as ergonomics.

Now, I have owned 60 mc in my life, and have had lemons from time to time, ones I couldn't get dialed in to my liking, etc, etc. But no brand is perfect, without their issues, yr/yr/ model/model,etc. You again must temper your attitude you are not the typical rider that bikes are designed for! That is really not the fault of the Manufacturer, They don't build bikes one fits all. You know that as well!

I have had lemons, bikes that just didn't perform as well, break all the time, etc, etc. They have been all brands going back to the mid sixties, Jap, Euro, Spanish, Italian, German, US, etc. But I wouldn't go so far to say they are trash, because they usually identified their issues and improved on them. Their is no "HOLY GRAIL OF MC". And of coarse, that issue is very subjective, I like brunets, some like blondes. etc.

I have found over the years when it comes to brand loyalties, whether it is cars, mc, snowmobiles, skis, etc, etc, insulting ones brand is like insulting his wife. Is it really necessary?

I hope you find something that works for you so you may enjoy the sport that I have loved for 50 years, when the bike works its' better then sex

Good Luck!

I can only assume you are very old! Otherwise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



  • handreasen
1,612 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted October 28, 2013 - 09:34 AM


I can only assume you are very old! Otherwise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

well dont't think im dead yet, 58 riding cr500 in desert races till a month ago, 18 yr old son B/A rider 250ktmsxf moto/GP/Desert depending on venue, still follows me through desert, cant beat him on MX though. What is very old any way?????

  • jetfuel

    TT Gold Member

1,062 posts
Location: Pennsylvania
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 09:38 AM


The unbelievably customized WR(YZ really) 450F is working incredibly well for me.

This is a favorite local 'sit down' trail that's very tight, as a few 'rock fairies' come visit it now and then, and is a real test of power breadth and handling.

It is by no means an 'extreme' trail, it's just flow-y and fun. We are flying down this trail!

Sorry for the cam angle, still working on it.

 

Looks like a fun trail... Put that cam up on your helmet , not like you have branches and vines to rip it off like we do here in the east.



  • handreasen
1,612 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted October 28, 2013 - 09:50 AM


well dont't think im dead yet, 58 riding cr500 in desert races till a month ago, 18 yr old son B/A rider 250ktmsxf moto/GP/Desert depending on venue, still follows me through desert, cant beat him on MX though. What is very old any way?????

Oh maybe questioning my creadability! OK started riding/racing @ 8 1/4mile ft, enduros, hill climbs,HH, Honda 90/bultaco persang, triumph Bonn hill climb, yes used block at start. Father raced also, that was my start at 8 do you want me to go further, so yes have owned 60 bikes, most all offraod events,iceracing one year,drag bikes, 1/2-1mile flat track, local road racing pavement, so maybe just possibly have owned 60 bikes in 50 years, OK any other doubts!!!!!!

  • hawaiidirtrider

    Get Help Now

9,880 posts
Location: Hawaii
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 10:47 AM


What? Me large?  Pffffftttt......

...but to be fair, I'm comparing to other bikes, not to other riders....

 

739950_733457476671426_202920697_o_zps91

 

What makes it worse is you are wearing a back pack weighted with tools, water and whatever. I wear one too and that just screws up riding position and balance  from riding without. ..When riding offroad that's just how it goes though. We need the pack . In some instances we aren't coming out of the trails without what's inside.  But really it is unrealistic to expect any bike to provide excellent handling with being very tall and a whole bunch of poundage high and to the rear. We all know that's kind of unrealistic. We just make it go as well as possible knowing it's unreasonable to expect more than what the manufacturer uses as what an average rider size and weight is to develop their bike. So what does your weight come out to with your boots and gear and backpack etc? .. plus the leverage that a big guy like you has with a backpack up high and rearward of the bike? 300+ lbs?  I'm not as big as you but I already feel a big change just loosing 15 to 20 lbs from being 230 and 6'1" with knuckle dragger longer arms. ..plus my pack weighs  a ton with all the tools, water , and a tiny bit of food.   Moving the bars forward, getting a bigger seat, and rear offset pegs and stiffening up the suspension only goes so far I think. I think anyone big for the design of the bike or too small are at a disadvantage sometimes... (Although I guess we can look at pitbikes for larger adaptation a bit )  I think manufacturers could go the route of providing some bikes for taller and shorter riders.. I feel shorter riders have it way worse as the bikes these days are way too high across the board. I think that's another reason Beta has gotten some more attention just because of a smaller.. not a lot smaller but smaller seat height. Older gasgas are the same way. The smaller shorter leg riders love them and they don't have to buy lowering linkages so much etc. In the case of gasgas there is a sub market that's high for the pamperas  even though their frames are known for breaking etc.. It has a super low seat height.. a trials motor in an enduro frame...Those things are awesome for tight ugly trails and for anyone not tall.. and of course they aren't made anymore. Actually I guess the Ossa explorer is kind of along those lines.

 

Just looking at this pic it looks like you can have your bars moved WAAAY more forward. I know I probably look similar in unbalancedness.. but you being bigger makes it more visually exaggerated.

 

Have you ever considered those zipty big pegs?

 

http://www.ziptyraci...m/foot-peg-ext/

 

 

That's ok Krannie I got a bike for you.. It's handled you wont look big on this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

061118-FtWorthIntlMCShow-Johns2ndDirtbik

 

I heard this is a new ktm prototype.

 

They have the electric bikes and  freeride and all...just covering their bases.


Edited by hawaiidirtrider, October 28, 2013 - 11:10 AM.


  • DMC707

    TT Titanium Member

2,113 posts
Location: Oklahoma
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 11:21 AM


I can only assume you are very old! Otherwise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Not hard to do if you are racing   ------- I started racing at 10 years old, using 1 bike the first year, next year I used 2 60's and an 80 , when I was 12 it was 3 80's (stock, mod and practice bike) , 13 - 3 80's again plus a 125  --- so that's 11 bikes by the time I was 13 and so on and so on.   By the time I was fully on the big bikes, it was 4-6 bikes/year most years and this persisted until I was 21, when at that point, a few nagging injuries, lack of money, and a pressing need to go to school  --- I didn't sling a leg over a bike again until I was 30, and then I just bought a KX-500 to donk around on

 

I attempted to add them all up but I came up with a number north of 60 as well ---- i'm 42 now,(if your 16-20 yo, that might seem old, but if your north of 30 - 42 doesn't seem that old anymore)    but I've really only added a small handful in the past few years compared to the days I raced in a somewhat serious fashion

 

 

(It really helps to have a dealer who supports racing - they can help procure factory lease deals as well as liquidate your old race bikes at the end of the year, -- not sure if there are that many dealerships who are that hardcore now though  - Rock Racing obviously is one    ) -- I shudder to think of how many bikes a 50 year old pro like Dubach has gone through in his racing/riding career , although he hasn't had to pay for many of 'em i'd wager 


Edited by DMC707, October 28, 2013 - 11:25 AM.


  • handreasen
1,612 posts
Location: Arizona

Posted October 28, 2013 - 11:50 AM


Not hard to do if you are racing   ------- I started racing at 10 years old, using 1 bike the first year, next year I used 2 60's and an 80 , when I was 12 it was 3 80's (stock, mod and practice bike) , 13 - 3 80's again plus a 125  --- so that's 11 bikes by the time I was 13 and so on and so on.   By the time I was fully on the big bikes, it was 4-6 bikes/year most years and this persisted until I was 21, when at that point, a few nagging injuries, lack of money, and a pressing need to go to school  --- I didn't sling a leg over a bike again until I was 30, and then I just bought a KX-500 to donk around on
 
I attempted to add them all up but I came up with a number north of 60 as well ---- i'm 42 now,(if your 16-20 yo, that might seem old, but if your north of 30 - 42 doesn't seem that old anymore)    but I've really only added a small handful in the past few years compared to the days I raced in a somewhat serious fashion
 
 
(It really helps to have a dealer who supports racing - they can help procure factory lease deals as well as liquidate your old race bikes at the end of the year, -- not sure if there are that many dealerships who are that hardcore now though  - Rock Racing obviously is one    ) -- I shudder to think of how many bikes a 50 year old pro like Dubach has gone through in his racing/riding career , although he hasn't had to pay for many of 'em i'd wager

Not hard to do if you are racing   ------- I started racing at 10 years old, using 1 bike the first year, next year I used 2 60's and an 80 , when I was 12 it was 3 80's (stock, mod and practice bike) , 13 - 3 80's again plus a 125  --- so that's 11 bikes by the time I was 13 and so on and so on.   By the time I was fully on the big bikes, it was 4-6 bikes/year most years and this persisted until I was 21, when at that point, a few nagging injuries, lack of money, and a pressing need to go to school  --- I didn't sling a leg over a bike again until I was 30, and then I just bought a KX-500 to donk around on
 
I attempted to add them all up but I came up with a number north of 60 as well ---- i'm 42 now,(if your 16-20 yo, that might seem old, but if your north of 30 - 42 doesn't seem that old anymore)    but I've really only added a small handful in the past few years compared to the days I raced in a somewhat serious fashion
 
 
(It really helps to have a dealer who supports racing - they can help procure factory lease deals as well as liquidate your old race bikes at the end of the year, -- not sure if there are that many dealerships who are that hardcore now though  - Rock Racing obviously is one    ) -- I shudder to think of how many bikes a 50 year old pro like Dubach has gone through in his racing/riding career , although he hasn't had to pay for many of 'em i'd wager

there was a time with family and racing I was looking at 6-10 bikes, talk about maintanence! LOL, Early years had the help of local dealer with bikes, not free, but a big help, It was a blessing, Yamaha for enduro/mx bikes, Triumph for hill climb and 1/2-Mile FT @ TT
Cota for trials, Bultaco for 1/4 mi FT and enduro as well. even provided snowmobiles to borrow on occassion, needless to say with my father and I both racing you could almost double the inventory required by us, he was big I was small couldnt share bikes easily, LOL.

  • Kah Ran Nee
24,772 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 11:51 AM


What makes it worse is you are wearing a back pack weighted with tools, water and whatever. I wear one too and that just screws up riding position and balance  from riding without. ..When riding offroad that's just how it goes though. We need the pack . In some instances we aren't coming out of the trails without what's inside.  But really it is unrealistic to expect any bike to provide excellent handling with being very tall and a whole bunch of poundage high and to the rear. We all know that's kind of unrealistic. We just make it go as well as possible knowing it's unreasonable to expect more than what the manufacturer uses as what an average rider size and weight is to develop their bike. So what does your weight come out to with your boots and gear and backpack etc? .. plus the leverage that a big guy like you has with a backpack up high and rearward of the bike? 300+ lbs?  I'm not as big as you but I already feel a big change just loosing 15 to 20 lbs from being 230 and 6'1" with knuckle dragger longer arms. ..plus my pack weighs  a ton with all the tools, water , and a tiny bit of food.   Moving the bars forward, getting a bigger seat, and rear offset pegs and stiffening up the suspension only goes so far I think. I think anyone big for the design of the bike or too small are at a disadvantage sometimes... (Although I guess we can look at pitbikes for larger adaptation a bit )  I think manufacturers could go the route of providing some bikes for taller and shorter riders.. I feel shorter riders have it way worse as the bikes these days are way too high across the board. I think that's another reason Beta has gotten some more attention just because of a smaller.. not a lot smaller but smaller seat height. Older gasgas are the same way. The smaller shorter leg riders love them and they don't have to buy lowering linkages so much etc. In the case of gasgas there is a sub market that's high for the pamperas  even though their frames are known for breaking etc.. It has a super low seat height.. a trials motor in an enduro frame...Those things are awesome for tight ugly trails and for anyone not tall.. and of course they aren't made anymore. Actually I guess the Ossa explorer is kind of along those lines.

 

Just looking at this pic it looks like you can have your bars moved WAAAY more forward. I know I probably look similar in unbalancedness.. but you being bigger makes it more visually exaggerated.

 

Have you ever considered those zipty big pegs?

 

http://www.ziptyraci...m/foot-peg-ext/

 

 

That's ok Krannie I got a bike for you.. It's handled you wont look big on this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

061118-FtWorthIntlMCShow-Johns2ndDirtbik

 

I heard this is a new ktm prototype.

 

They have the electric bikes and  freeride and all...just covering their bases.

 

OBVIOUSLY, that is a Suzuki prototype. Ppfffftt...

 

Can't move my bars forward. One of my shoulders is permanently dislocated and the other one is trashed.

I rode the ktm with the bars in the most forward position to make the standing up transition easier, but it put way too much weight on the front wheel.

KTM'S are just too tiny.

285lbs with fully loaded back pack.

I already have Fastway oversize lowered pegs.



  • GHILL28

    TT Platinum Member

1,989 posts
Location: California

Posted October 28, 2013 - 12:14 PM


You need much taller bars, that is for sure.  I ran some pretty damn high bars on my YZ and it fit me pretty well at 6' with shorter arms and wider shoulders.  2-3" rise bars with a Scott's submount did the trick.  Next was lowered pegs and it started to feel sorta right.  Both YZ's and KTM's have a ton of ground clearance but maintain the same bar height as anything else, so they're a challenge for tall riders since the "stack" measurement gets smaller, even with a taller seat height.

 

Put the tools in a fanny pack and just keep the water up high.  That change alone did great things for my posture on the bike.



  • Kah Ran Nee
24,772 posts
Location: California
Garage View Garage

Posted October 28, 2013 - 12:36 PM


You need much taller bars, that is for sure.  I ran some pretty damn high bars on my YZ and it fit me pretty well at 6' with shorter arms and wider shoulders.  2-3" rise bars with a Scott's submount did the trick.  Next was lowered pegs and it started to feel sorta right.  Both YZ's and KTM's have a ton of ground clearance but maintain the same bar height as anything else, so they're a challenge for tall riders since the "stack" measurement gets smaller, even with a taller seat height.

 

Put the tools in a fanny pack and just keep the water up high.  That change alone did great things for my posture on the bike.

 

Yes, that ride pictured was the first ride after figuring out the powerband issues (had to port the shit out of it after putting in the YZ cams).

I now have 1 1/8" high risers added .

980958_214705075376626_1550698602_o_zps3


  • Jeff aka Travolta and Rack like this
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  • GHILL28

    TT Platinum Member

1,989 posts
Location: California

Posted October 28, 2013 - 01:32 PM


Got it.

 

Side question:  What is so interesting about the underside of your visor?







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