Trying to fiqure out why we like our BRP's



43 replies to this topic
  • XR/CRDave

Posted December 21, 2003 - 09:15 AM

#1

It seems like the BRP always gets a bad rap from mags and other riders, why do you ride that heavy thing and comments like that. This made me wonder if I have a lame bike or am I missing out on something by not getting a lightweight 450 4 stroker. On friday myself and some friends took the day off and went to the desert, Octillo Wells. Then I began to remember why I liked my BRP, we covered 55 miles of all types of terrain, washes, whoop roads, tight turns in mud hills and sandy washes, sand hills, and playing around in the mud hills. While I never won any drag races I always went by the CRF450 and KTM520 once up to speed and was usually way ahead by the time we would stop. Anyhow, I always felt comfortable no matter what terrain we were on plus this dam thing flys down the dirt roads and washes and is stable as an ocean liner at sea.
Thought you guys may want to know this, because I was thinking of selling the BRP (and my 01 CR250) to get a 04 CRF450, well not anymore. I wish I could afford a CRF for the track, that would be the ultimate bike combo, 650 and 450.

  • big t

Posted December 21, 2003 - 09:42 AM

#2

The xr is more reliable with less maintenance. I like the 450's and even the 250's but I didn't want a light weight hi tech bike. The 650 was the only bike I felt like had the reliabilty and power I wanted. I think it is going to be a great all around bike. :)

  • BWB63

Posted December 21, 2003 - 10:01 AM

#3

With the suspension setup right and the right rider it can get some good air. The opinoin of the weight changes when they see the BRP going off the table tops and then pass them on the trails. In the dunes the CRF450's don't have a chance against a tuned Oinker. The difference is fifty pounds, I weigh 190 pounds so, I look for a rider that weighs 240 pounds on a 450. Not that hard to find now-a-days. :)

  • Kritter

Posted December 21, 2003 - 11:07 AM

#4

I have both teh 650 and an 04 450 and the 450 smokes in the dunes, but the 650 is a bitchen all around bike. I jsut got my MC permit so I will be logging on my newly dual sported 650. It is heavey but you dont notice it. I can go a bit faster on tight singletrack on the 650 then the 450....or at least it seems faster. ON a track I would not take the 650, but thats not what it is made for. I like both bikes equally and would take either of them but now that I have both I wouldnt give up either one!

  • Carlisle1972

Posted December 21, 2003 - 02:42 PM

#5

I have had the 426's 400's 250's. With the right rider and set up the pig can fly and is absolutly bullet proof compared to the super windy light machines, the pigs are overbuilt so if you ride once a week or more you dont have a lot of time for repairs, the maintance is enough, it can go slow and VERY FAST at the same time most bikes do one or the other, Everyone makes fun of the fat kid til they get there butts kicked!!! People that have negative ideas have not ridden the bikes or they have the Barbi complex with bikes, such as the writers for our popular magazines everything is compared to a 200 lb 525 four stroke, those to them are OK :) come on ridding is having fun so pick a bike and go! they are all good, when you have 5 days off work and are in the middle of moab ridding into the sun as it goes down with your buddies are you going to care what bike you have? Just what cold beer awaits you at camp :D and if your bike still works for the next day then your set, this is where the pig comes in... endless fun always works !!!

  • Naru

Posted December 21, 2003 - 03:11 PM

#6

Just a side note (as for the BRP, your absolutely right on everything you said), I've got to say that I really don't think the CRF is all that much better than everything else, at least for the desert. I had owned 7 250's before purchasing the 450 (95CR250, 97KX250, 97CR250, 98RM250, 98YZ250, 01YZ250, 01CR250), and still own 3 currently (see sig). Anyway, it's not so much that the 450 is bad, I just feel that it isn't really that much better, especially than my 2001 YZ250. I have both bikes set up just like I like them (suspension by Precision Concepts for both, desert eq, etc), and the YZ just feels much more comfortable for long rides. Engine wise, the CRF definately has an advantage, but it gives me the shivers every time I leave that bike wide open for 3-4 min at a time with the small oil capacity. Anyway, I just thought I'd share the opinion of someone who hasn't completely given up on two-strokes. I think 4-strokes are a viable alternative, but I don't think that they 'smash' the 2-stroke competition or whatnot. Then again, thats desert. Track, that may be different. I don't ride them usually, so I'd have no idea. :)

Small piece of trivia: Worst of all those 250's was the RM250. That was one of the years they experimented with Showa right-side-up forks. Someone definately made a mistake.. I've ridden pogo-sticks that were plusher. :D

  • Roll_it_on

Posted December 21, 2003 - 04:44 PM

#7

For me it boiled down to the one bike that can do everything that I get in the mood for. From carving around the back roads on a sunny day to blasting down the trail trying to stay ahead or catch up to my buddies. Once my body decide it was time to give up the motocross thing so went the 2-strokes bikes of my past. I enjoy tinkering with my bike and doing the maintenance (filters and oil) and day dreaming about all of the goodies I want to add but I don't want to be spliting cases and putting in new top ends every season. My XR600 was the most reliable bike I have ever owned and it appears that my new 650R is going to be just as good. It's the do it all bike for me and the best part is the sound as I cultivate the soil as I blast down the trail :)

  • needsprayer

Posted December 21, 2003 - 06:04 PM

#8

Actually I didn't have a clue as to what I was getting into with a big bore dirt bike. I wanted a bike that I would never outgrow, required low maintenance and parts were both available and affordable.

I will probably ride this bike until I am no longer capable of riding and find that over all those years very little has changed from the basic design. My first engine upgrade will come when the first top end is required and then it will be a mild cam for more midrange punch. I really don't need it for the riding I do, but it would be cool.

While the BRP is not flickable it is a noble steed. Respect it and it will take you anywhere.

I really like the BRP because of its stability under speed. It soaks up rough terrain like a bounty towel soaks up spilled drinks. :)

  • BrianVT

Posted December 21, 2003 - 06:33 PM

#9

I'd been on an XR500R for the last 13 years and wanted a new bike last spring. I'm in the northeast and rarely hit 4th gear on the 500. I hemmed and hawwed and finally convinced myself to downsize and get an XR400 but a 650R fell in my lap. I fell in love with it instantly, even though I can make better time on the 400. Then I rode a couple events with my buds who ride WR250s and started doubting my purchase (I could ride their speed but I tired out sooner). I was gonna trade bikes but realized it's probably me and not the bike that needs help. Regardless, I have way more fun with this bike than I do on the "flickable" ones and I'm not out for trophies or prize money anyway. I'm keepin' it. There's nothin' like getting your scrotum stretched by a 650R :)

  • BWB63

Posted December 21, 2003 - 08:02 PM

#10

CRF450 is a much better bike on the MX trake but, the XR650R can get some air (lot's out there think it wasn't made or able to that's not true) On the Dunes the XR650R with a Paddle the right rider it is the winner.....I would love to take the challange.......

Barrowed from; http://xr650r.us/
An uncorked XR650R produces close to 42 lb/ft of torque at 5,500 RPM and close to 48 rear wheel HP at 6,500 RPM. The CRF450 comes stock as a full fledged race bike and produces about 29.5 lb/ft of torque at 6,500 RPM and 40 rear wheel HP at 8,000 RPM. The CRF450 has a much broader powerband that's very linear and it will keep pulling where the XR650R falls off in the RPM range, so naturally it will feel faster to some people. Gearing also plays a big role in all of this.

A modified CRF450R that includes a special cam grind that's installed to the correct degree with higher performance valve springs, retainers, guides, porting, 12:5.1 piston, power now valve, Doma exhaust and running Nutec Special 5 fuel produces about 34.7 lb/ft of torque 7,200 RPM and about 53.4 rear wheel HP at 9,200 RPM.

Now if you modify the XR650R with a 680 kit, cam, piston, header & exhaust, you can boost the torque to about 50 lb/ft at 6,000 RPM and raise the rear wheel HP to 64 at 7,500 RPM.

If you take the total torque of the bikes and divide it by the weight of the bikes, you'll get a better idea of the power to weight ratios.

CRF450R @ 29.5 / 225 = 0.1311 lb/ft torque per lb of bike weight.
CRF450R modified @ 34.7 / 225 = 0.1542 ft/lbs torque per lb of bike weight.
XR650R @ 42 / 277 = 0.1515 lb/ft torque per lb of bike weight.
XR650R modified @ 50 / 277 = 0.1805 lb/ft torque per lb of bike weight.

You can clearly see that an uncorked XR650R engine still makes more raw torque than a stock CRF450R and it's very closely matched to a modified CRF450R in terms of total engine torque, but an uncorked XR650R makes its power with more reliability, with less effort, thus less with maintenance. When you modify the XR650R with the 680 kit and other goodies, then the choice becomes very clear, especially on courses where weight isn't an issue. No matter how you slice it, the CRF450R is a very attractive bike and extremely competitive due to its lighter weight, but the XR650R is still very competitive when the weight of the bike isn't as much of a factor.

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  • smashinz2002

Posted December 21, 2003 - 09:17 PM

#11

Yeah man.. I don't know why so many people whine about the weight of the 650R. Any adult male in good shape should have no problem handling this bike. It's fast, fun, and doesn't break, and that's why I have one! Not all of us are scrawny little 140 pounders crying because the bike weighs 300lbs.. Big deal! I deadlift a lot more than that at the gym anyway. I'm not a huge fat boy either only 188 at 5'10", so these guys complaining about the weight of the bike need to get in shape and quit whining. Honestly!
The CRF, YZF, and the KTM's are all cool and very fast and furious, and handle better for their intended purposes, but for all around off-roading, the 650R in my opinion is the best open class bike out there right now. :)

  • irondude

Posted December 21, 2003 - 09:36 PM

#12

Best open class bike. Yeah- i think that is a good description for the BRP. The KX500 will beat it in a wooped out desert race, and a KTM 525 will get it as well---but over all - dualsporting, baja, woods, reliability, cost, availability of parts, etc. etc. -- its hard to beat.
Cutting edge Baja racers are starting to talk about a new bike-check it out: http://www.ktm.sk/mo...g/04/fe650e.htm
This aint know parts-bin 625 paint shaker--its got the BRP beat when it comes to power and weight-and its nearly race ready right out of the box.
I havent seen one yet--and for sure its gonna be a challenge to find an IMS dry brake for it--but at 239lbs this 650 is something to watch for...and something for the 2007 CRF 550 to aim for!! :)

  • needsprayer

Posted December 22, 2003 - 04:43 AM

#13

If that Husaberg FE 650 E is reliable then it is a winner. But that weight savings had to come from the frame. Looks rather spindly to me. I wonder what one moderate crash would do to it. Almost looks like a throw-away frame. :)

  • Rokatt88

Posted December 22, 2003 - 07:47 AM

#14

Yep, the XR650R has got to be the most versitile scoot made. When a good Ridin' Bud & I first bought ours, we were thinking dual sport. Once I got the BRP out at Ocotillo I was just amazed at how well it worked. Not just there but ANYTHING I have tried, this bike works for me. I have yet to dual sport it but plan to before the end if January so I can have the plate. Having said that, I also agree that having a 650 & 450 is the best combo. Couple of my Budz have it...Santa, I've been really, really good! Honest! :)

  • BWB63

Posted December 22, 2003 - 01:51 PM

#15

You have to put lots of money into the KX500 suspension to handle the whoops to beat the XR650R. The KX500 is early 90's technology and the XR650r is 98' technology. CRF450 is 2002 MX technology. I don't see the KX500 winning against the BRP any more....I must be reading the wrong articles. (I am a little bias) In the destert the XR650R rules and the results show it.

  • XR/CRDave

Posted December 22, 2003 - 02:29 PM

#16

I had a 95 KX500 w/ FMF pipe and it did not seem as fast at the top speed as my 650. Sure it was fast but if you chopped the throttle a little it usually required a downshift to get it going again. I do think if team green would run Baja again they would give honda a hard time.

  • Rokatt88

Posted December 22, 2003 - 03:15 PM

#17

I do think if team green would run Baja again they would give honda a hard time.


Maybe...Only if Team Honda doesn't cut the course! :)

  • BWB63

Posted December 22, 2003 - 04:49 PM

#18

I don't think that the race' with the big name riders and the corprate sponsers is what tells how the average every day rider is going to do on a bike in his favorit enviroment. I have a little money into my bike and smoke at times (if the moon and sun phase just right) I could smoke a stock 400, 426, 450 on my favorit trails (big whoops, nasty up's and downs, the works. If there is any straights and you get to 80 it's over and they just can't get back in front. (if the tide changes, I may wipe out and then there is just roooooost in the face) It has a lot to do with the rider and the style of riding. I have a lot of issues but, when I am on I'm on. Switching bike's, I am sure Jamie would smoke me on my own bike and me on his CRF450. :)

  • Kritter

Posted December 22, 2003 - 05:49 PM

#19

Me and a bud put 110 miles on out BRP's today and although my ass hurts it was a blast. The bike is awesome, the only people who say it isnt are people who have never ridden one. I still lov emy 450 but the 650 rips for dualsport and desert trips.

  • irondude

Posted December 22, 2003 - 09:41 PM

#20

I love the BRP-but IMHO its just not a very good race bike.

Kawasaki KX500 just won the BITD Open Pro Championship! Its only the most coveted desert racing championship on the planet--Check it out in any Cycle News, Dirt Bike or maybe the Reno Tribune--'cause a KX500 smoked the BRP's at this years Vegas to Reno--the longest (and fastest) off-road race in the USA.
I love our bike-but it drives me nuts that TTers think our bike is a significant race winner. ...Fact is -the BRP DIDNT win ANY major Championship other than SCORE this year-(-where there wasnt any competition). In fact the BRP is RARELY a winner in the desert. Few D-37 Events are won on the BRP- and only 3 BITD events where won by the 650 (Team Honda now switches to the CRF450 at some events!)---the only place the BRP wins is Baja--but thats only becouse NOONE else races there. On rare occasions-like the Baja 300-that someone else does compete-our bike looses. KTM won at the last Baja 300. Same thing at the FIM Rallyes--KTM beats out everyone-the BRP is not even a contender.
If you think ya gotta put a lot of money into a KX500 to make it desert raceable-try adding up the cost to do it to the BRP!!!The KX500 is A LOT cheaper to set up! I cant think of ANY bike released in the last 5 years that needs as much work as the BRP to get it up to race speed.
The XR650 is nothing more than a XR600 with a bulky early nineties frame, water jacket, and radiators. Its early nineties frame and suspension technology over layed on 1980's engine technology. The bottom end engine layouts are nearly identical to the 600! The suspension is early nineties forks and shock-nothing 1998 on the bike!
It aint no USD Unicam CRF--that thing is modern.... WHen the CRF600X is released in a few years we will see the first real open class Honda 4 stroke change in decades--
Our Bike is an old fat tank that traces its roots straight out of the 1978 XL250-like all the mid to large sized XR/XL family members since. Its a fun, cheap, easy and dependable as can be bike-
-but it aint no KX500, YZ450, CRF450, Husaberg 650 (?) or KTM 525--all of which beat our bike at the races every weekend...





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