Does my 07' need a battery to run properly? (Stator / CDI question)


36 replies to this topic
  • Do I Care?

Posted July 08, 2013 - 03:13 PM

#21

Barra, enough. I've not claimed to know anything about anything except how the electrical system on the WR works and again, I'm right. Backtrack, talk circles, come up with whatever excuse you want but you are still wrong. I told you to try it, you didn't and are proved wrong. As well, Trail Tech stator or stock the OP's question is WILL THE BIKE RUN WITHOUT A BATTERY; the answer: no. Nothing about lights, AC or DC or anything else was asked, your reading comprehension is severely lacking, sorry to say and you long rant still talking about it completely off the topic at hand.

Again, try your own advice, an 03+ won't start without something in the circuit. A battery is the best thing, but a properly sized cap will work as well.

I've not explained the charging system because I shouldn't have to and refuse to stoop to your level and badgering. So I've not explained it wrong, I've just not explained it to you, so again you're wrong. Your "magic smurf" weird third person explanation above proves just how much you know. Or how little. And I only mentioned my electronics background once in all my posts on here in hopes you'll start to realize you may not know what you think you do and stop, I guess not.

I've informed the mods before of his wrong advice; not poor, not mistaken, but flat out wrong information that can cost people broken equipment and so far they've done nothing so I wanted to not have you have you suffer fools advice and needlessly get frustrated and maybe blow money on things not broken.

Mike

Blablabla see edited post above ..

As for your ''telling the mods and them not doing anything''... Maybe they know you are FOS too. :rolleyes: :lol:

  • SLC18T

Posted July 17, 2013 - 06:22 AM

#22

Didn't read the whole post. Just wanted to put my personal experience in. My 03 WR450 did not need a battery to kick start and operate as normal minus the e start. I would assume the newer carb models would be the same. But I can not say for sure.

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 17, 2013 - 06:38 AM

#23

Yeah, just as it is written below...

I had a look at how the Trailtech Reg/Rec is set-up and yes- it WILL NOT run without a battery. This is because the charging circuit does not join to the ignition circuit (in other words, it is a dual circuit). Not so sure if this is the best idea as if the stator burnt out or the battery went flat, the bike would not run at all.

As released from factory- the charging circuit joins to the ignition circuit so it WILL run without the battery but will make the lights dim (as mentioned in my first post).


Standard the lights run off AC power, but with the Trailtech wiring schematics they run off DC.

However- the problem is that Mike [color=#011A4D]miweber929[/color] says the lights run off AC (in another thread) with no reference to whether he is talking about factory or Trailtech (the question was about a Trailtech). I also asked him what a ''pulser'' was but the reply was '' the lights run off AC everything else runs off DC and with that, I'm done''. Edit: [color=#FF0000]He also says things like- STANDARD- IT WILL NOT RUN OFF THE BATTERY! [/color]I just don't believe that he has any understanding of a standard system, let alone a Trailtech as he cannot explain anything properly. For someone who claims to know everything and be an ''electrical engineer'', he has not explained anything.

Hope this has cleared up all misunderstanding.

Posted Image
Enjoy!


Edited by Barra8, July 18, 2013 - 05:21 PM.


  • 123devinzz1

Posted July 17, 2013 - 06:59 AM

#24

Sooo. Is it bad that my 07 will start and run without the battery???

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 17, 2013 - 07:09 AM

#25

Sooo. Is it bad that my 07 will start and run without the battery???

No, of course not, see below...
As released from factory- the charging circuit joins to the ignition circuit so it WILL run without the battery but will make the lights dim (as mentioned in my first post).

  • 123devinzz1

Posted July 17, 2013 - 07:12 AM

#26

No, of course not, see below...
As released from factory- the charging circuit joins to the ignition circuit so it WILL run without the battery but will make the lights dim (as mentioned in my first post).


I keep my headlight off. why do people keep telling me it cant be done then?

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 17, 2013 - 07:15 AM

#27

I keep my headlight off. why do people keep telling me it cant be done then?

Because they have no idea!
The fact that it runs without a battery means that your regulator/regulator is working correctly and stator is charging properly.

  • SJMC_DON

Posted July 18, 2013 - 10:25 AM

#28

It was made EXCEPTIONALLY clear in my original post that the bike was equipped with an after market Trail Tech Stator and reg/rec. And I will swear on anyone's grave that the bike will not run, (or atleast not run correctly), without a battery or capacitor in the charging circuit.

One slight clarification to Barra8's comment regarding the design and potential pitfalls of the full DC trailtech system - If the battery completely discharges on a bike equipped with the Trail Tech system, the bike will kick start and run just fine as long as the battery has not totally failed and will not store any charge and as long as the stator and reg/rec are working as designed. If your stator and/or reg/rec go south on you, your battery will eventually discharge and THEN the bike will not run and this can be a detriment if you are way back in there and alone.... I have found that I was able to make it out by swapping my dead battery for a buddies charged battery until the bike started stuttering or the little red LED on the ignition button started lighting up intermittenly at which time we played musical batteries again until we reached camp.

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  • Do I Care?

Posted July 18, 2013 - 04:22 PM

#29

One slight clarification to Barra8's comment regarding the design and potential pitfalls of the full DC trailtech system - If the battery completely discharges on a bike equipped with the Trail Tech system, the bike will kick start and run just fine as long as the battery has not totally failed and will not store any charge and as long as the stator and reg/rec are working as designed. If your stator and/or reg/rec go south on you, your battery will eventually discharge and THEN the bike will not run and this can be a detriment if you are way back in there and alone.... I have found that I was able to make it out by swapping my dead battery for a buddies charged battery until the bike started stuttering or the little red LED on the ignition button started lighting up intermittenly at which time we played musical batteries again until we reached camp.

It depends which Trailtech regulator you have installed. Some are a dual circuit (does not join to the battery), some do.

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 18, 2013 - 05:05 PM

#30

I had a look at how the Trailtech Reg/Rec is set-up and yes- it WILL NOT run without a battery. This is because the charging circuit does not join to the ignition circuit (in other words, it is a dual circuit). Not so sure if this is the best idea as if the stator burnt out or the battery went flat, the bike would not run at all.
Edit: [color=#FF0000]However, it depends which Trailtech stator is installed as to whether or not it will run WITHOUT THE BATTERY. [/color]

As released from factory- the charging circuit joins to the ignition circuit so it WILL run without the battery but will make the lights dim (as mentioned in my first post).


Standard the lights run off AC power, but with the Trailtech wiring schematics they run off DC Edit:[color=#FF0000] [/color][color=#FF0000]unless you have the Trail Tech AC regulator.[/color]

However- the problem is that Mike [color=#011A4D]miweber929[/color] says the lights run off AC (in another thread) with no reference to whether he is talking about factory or Trailtech (the question was about a Trailtech). I also asked him what a ''pulser'' was but the reply was '' the lights run off AC everything else runs off DC and with that, I'm done''. Edit: [color=#FF0000]He also says things like- STANDARD- IT WILL NOT RUN OFF THE BATTERY! [/color] I just don't believe that he has any understanding of a standard system, let alone a Trailtech as he cannot explain anything properly. For someone who claims to know everything and be an ''electrical engineer'', he has not explained anything. Edit: [color=#FF0000]and cannot read a wiring diagram[/color]

Hope this has cleared up all misunderstanding.

Posted Image
Enjoy!

To clarify my previous post look up at this one where it says ''edit'' and read the words in red.

Also- after doing an advanced search using [color=#011A4D]miweber929[/color] in the ''FIND AUTHOR'' tab, you will know what I mean about [color=#011A4D]miweber929[/color] . I cannot find one post that the OP said it helped. Some good info too but mostly just garbage.
http://www.thumperta...ch&fromsearch=1

Edited by Barra8 to clear up confusion Today at 11:38AM..

Edited by Barra8, July 18, 2013 - 05:38 PM.


  • Do I Care?

Posted July 18, 2013 - 06:08 PM

#31

Barra, enough. I've not claimed to know anything about anything except how the electrical system on the WR works and again,


Mike

Looked at the diagram, but do you understand? I'm an electrical engineer so i do understand AND have real world knowledge: I physically removed the battery and tried to kick start my 04, it didn't start. I put the battery in and wham, first kick it started. As well the bike quit on a trail late last year and wouldn't run, why? Bad cell in the battery; new battery and been running perfect since.

You?

Barra8, based on your sig bikes your knowledge of newer designs is limited, the WR400/426 (and XL185's and TTR's as well) are not the same as the 03-up WR's. Do yourself a favor and learn about these bikes before telling someone WRONG info on something you don't know anything about.

Good day to you, sir.

I noticed how you edited the part where it said ''I do know the WR wiring''.

As I said STANDARD- IT WILL RUN WITHOUT THE BATTERY!
With Trailtech it will not but that depends on which trailtech regulator you use. Info on Trailtech systems can be found in the link below.
http://www.trailtech...ch_support.html-
There you go, no need to correct the spelling as it is right in AU.
Enjoy!

Edited by Barra8, July 18, 2013 - 07:44 PM.


  • miweber929

Posted July 18, 2013 - 07:29 PM

#32

I noticed how you edited the part where it said ''I do know the WR wiring''.

As I said STANDARD- IT WILL RUN OFF THE BATTERY!
With Trailtech it will not but that depends on which trailtech regulator you use. Info on Trailtech systems can be found in the link below.
http://www.trailtech...ch_support.html


&%$#@! is your damage? I edited nothing except spelling mistakes, you are seriously deranged. Get help, there might still be hope for you yet.

Have you personally tried pulling a battery on an 03+ WR yet? If not you're continuing to make yourself look foolish. I refuse to deal with you any longer; grow up.

Mike

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 18, 2013 - 07:44 PM

#33

I noticed how you edited the part where it said ''I do know the WR wiring''.

As I said STANDARD- IT WILL RUN WITHOUT THE BATTERY!
With Trailtech it will not but that depends on which trailtech regulator you use. Info on Trailtech systems can be found in the link below.
http://www.trailtech...ch_support.html-
There you go, no need to correct the spelling as it is right in AU.
Enjoy!



  • Krannie McKranface

Posted July 18, 2013 - 08:00 PM

#34

So, your saying then, that I need to run with the battery, for it to run without the battery ???

  • Do I Care?

Posted July 18, 2013 - 09:17 PM

#35

So, your saying then, that I need to run with the battery, for it to run without the battery ???

Are you talking to me?
If you are- I am saying-
As released from the factory, the charging circuit runs into the same circuit as the ignition circuit. If you do not have a battery, IT WILL STILL START, assuming that your Reg/Rec is working correctly. The charging voltage Will be over 12-VDC so will therefore run the ignition coil. However, you would have to disconnect the all other items drawing power as these will interfere with the charging voltage. Also the electric start will nor work and kick-starting will be required to start it.

The Trail Tech systems vary, some do use the charging voltage for the ignition circuit, some don't.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 19, 2013 - 06:53 AM

#36

took battery straight to store bought new battery. upon return I Kicked bike to life (With no battery installed)tested voltage. voltage was same as above.

Sooo. Is it bad that my 07 will start and run without the battery???


Obviously, at least some do, and apparently, some don't. The issue appears to center around the low voltage produced at idle and lower speeds.

Reviewing the schematic, it is immediately apparent that the headlight runs directly off of unregulated, unrectified AC straight from the yellow lead. Tracing the white stator lead, you see that it also splits at the rectifier/regulator, passing through to the battery on one leg, and looping around to the CDI on the other, so the CDI unit has two power sources, one AC and one DC. Removing the battery interrupts neither of these two circuits.

The low voltage issue noted by redsqwrl is probably also why some WR's have trouble cold starting with the e-start. Those interested may want to check the battery voltage while cold cranking the engine with the button and watch how far it drops. Never checked one on a WR, but 9 volts is not unusual in cars, especially older ones with the bigger starter motors, or newer ones with marginal batteries to save weight. Note that devinzz1 keeps his headlight turned off.

Either way, I think you guys need to agree to disagree about this one. You've more or less covered all of the points either of you have to make.

  • danpat1508

Posted November 30, 2015 - 11:21 PM

#37

My 03 runs and starts fine without a battery, does this mean the wiring may be incorrect? everything seems to work ok though.






 
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