2003 WR450F no Spark.


28 replies to this topic
  • Krimble

Posted June 05, 2013 - 04:56 PM

#1

My 03 WR450F does not want to start. There is no spark, the primary coil measures short and the secondary coil measures open, is it normal that there is always 5 volts DC at the connector when the ignition switch is on? Thanks!

  • Krimble

Posted June 06, 2013 - 04:19 PM

#2

Well. I just got a new Coil and it's the same. :( Every switch and connector look good. It's just when I turn on the starter, no power goes to the coil. Every light and blinkers work, even killswicth, clutch sensor and neutral sensor.

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 05:39 AM

#3

My 03 WR450F does not want to start. There is no spark, the primary coil measures short and the secondary coil measures open, is it normal that there is always 5 volts DC at the connector when the ignition switch is on? Thanks!

What connector?
No there should NOT be five volts. The charging circuit is usually 13.5 V and the ignition circuit has 12~13. volts. At no point should it go as low as 5V!
The trigger circuit is roughly 3-6 V (AC power).
When you say that all is working properly, how did you test this?

Edited by Barra8, June 09, 2013 - 11:16 PM.


  • miweber929

Posted June 07, 2013 - 06:41 AM

#4

What connector?
No there should NOT be five volts. The charging circuit is usually 13.5 V and the ignition circuit has 12~13. volts. At no point should it go as low as 5V!
The trigger circuit is roughly 3-6 amps (AC power).
When you say that all is working properly, how did you test this?


He is wrong, the LED circuit should be 5 volts and should be on only when the switch is pressed on. Your testing the wrong pins or incorrectly.

You painted the frame: make sure you have all good, and all are connected, grounds.

Mike

Edited by miweber929, June 07, 2013 - 06:42 AM.


  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 06:52 AM

#5

He is wrong, the LED circuit should be 5 volts and should be on only when the switch is pressed on. Your testing the wrong pins or incorrectly.

You painted the frame: make sure you have all good, and all are connected, grounds.

Mike


Now you have lost me- 5-V in the LED circuit? what are you talking about?

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 07:30 AM

#6

He is wrong, the LED circuit should be 5 volts and should be on only when the switch is pressed on. Your testing the wrong pins or incorrectly.

You painted the frame: make sure you have all good, and all are connected, grounds.

Mike


I think you should do some research before you post.

Edited by Barra8, June 07, 2013 - 05:49 PM.


  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 07:59 AM

#7

Here are the specifications from the manual...

[size="3"]Electrical:[/size]

[size="3"]Ignition system CDI[/size]

[size="3"]Generator system AC Magneto[/size]

[size="3"]Battery type YTZ7S[/size]

[size="3"]Battery voltage capacity 12 V/6 AH[/size]

[size="3"]Specific gravity 1.310[/size]

[size="3"]............................................................[/size]

[size="3"]Headlight type: Quarts bulb (halogen)[/size]

[size="3"]Bulb wattage x quantity [/size]

[size="3"]Headlight 12 V 60/55 W x 1[/size]

[size="3"]Taillight 12V 21/5 W X 1[/size]

  • Krimble

Posted June 07, 2013 - 04:45 PM

#8

Thanks guys, pics of the bike in case it helps.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The 5 volts I'm talking about is at the connector that connects to the coil. Well I bought a CDI, Coil, and Harness off Ebay incase.

  • Krimble

Posted June 07, 2013 - 04:50 PM

#9

It's also weird, because the headlight, taillight, turn signals, horn, starter, and speedometer work, but just no spark. Which makes me believe it's the CDI? We tested the clutch switch, and neutral sensor and both read good when engaged and disengaged.

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 04:53 PM

#10

The rectifier/regulators job is to convert the AC power generated from the AC magneto into DC power and also regulate the power (lower it to 12V). The power from the battery does not go through the rectifier, it simply joins to the 12V charging curcuit after the regulator. If your charging circuit was at fault the battery would not charge properly. If the power was leaking through the voltage regulator/ ressistor, it would touch DC power to AC and would burn out the wiring completely (been there done that, got the T-shirt).

To test your rectifier (charging curcuit)- Dissconnect the battery (the red positive terminal), connect a multimeter to the yellow wire coming out from the rectifier (you can also test this at the fuse), use the kickstarter (or put it in top gear with back wheel raised and spin the wheel). Earth the black mutimeter terminal to the frame or motor. Now- is there constant 13-5 V coming out of the rectifier. If it is fluctuating under 13V or over 14V or there is no power- your rectifier/regulator or AC magneto is at fault.

If it is not the charging circuit you need to find where in the ignition/lighting system is earthed or crossed. Check all lighting components are working as they should and that the wires are not crossed or earthed. This includes your ignition switch, light switch, off/on switch and all lighting components.


To test if you have a power wire crossed to the earth- Make sure that your battery is connected, test the MAIN EARTH (black wire at the coil) by putting a multimeter on the main earth (while it is still connected to earth) using the red terminal of the multimeter. Now earth the mulitimeter on the frame or motor- do you have any power coming through the main earth? If so you have a power wire crossed to an earth wire somewhere.


Now you have to check that all DC power wires are not touching ground (the frame or motor).

Enjoy!

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  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 05:05 PM

#11

To save any confusion- it does not matter that you have LED's, it will not change the info above.
If you did not get 12 V from the CDI it may be at fault. However, you would have to test the power feed to the CDI as it may be before the CDI.

Edited by Barra8, June 07, 2013 - 05:09 PM.


  • Krimble

Posted June 07, 2013 - 07:38 PM

#12

Thank you so much! It's really appreciated. I will try this first thing when I wake uo and get back to you. :) I will take notes of the readings I get.

  • Krimble

Posted June 07, 2013 - 07:40 PM

#13

Also. I have new trailtech stator installed with a new rectifier. Never started since the build, so might it be that?

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 07, 2013 - 08:15 PM

#14

Also. I have new trailtech stator installed with a new rectifier. Never started since the build, so might it be that?


Yes do that and let me know the voltage.

Thank you so much! It's really appreciated. I will try this first thing when I wake uo and get back to you. :) I will take notes of the readings I get.

Also. I have new trailtech stator installed with a new rectifier. Never started since the build, so might it be that?


Yes,do that.
Also, let me know the exact kit that you bought so I can help further (if possible).

  • miweber929

Posted June 08, 2013 - 07:21 PM

#15

Now you have lost me- 5-V in the LED circuit? what are you talking about?


Press the button on your dash to turn on the ignition, what do you see (on a US spec bike at least)? An LED. And the last time I dug around up there looking at things it read 5V at it.

I think you should do some research before you post.


Sure will. :) I'd also bet good money since his lights and other electrical things work your sending him to check the charging circuit will do nothing to help a no spark issue. And kicking the bike won't give a constant voltage reading, at least not enough to tell what's working or not.

OP, is everything that was grounded before painting the frame still grounded? The coil, regulator, etc? Have you tried your old stator? New stator hooked up 100% correct? Most aftermarket stators I've run into flat the ground, you sure things aren't mixed up between charging and starting circuits?

Edited by miweber929, June 08, 2013 - 07:31 PM.


  • Do I Care?

Posted June 08, 2013 - 08:00 PM

#16

Press the button on your dash to turn on the ignition, what do you see (on a US spec bike at least)? An LED. And the last time I dug around up there looking at things it read 5V at it.



Sure will. :) I'd also bet good money since his lights and other electrical things work your sending him to check the charging circuit will do nothing to help a no spark issue. And kicking the bike won't give a constant voltage reading, at least not enough to tell what's working or not.

OP, is everything that was grounded before painting the frame still grounded? The coil, regulator, etc? Have you tried your old stator? New stator hooked up 100% correct? Most aftermarket stators I've run into flat the ground, you sure things aren't mixed up between charging and starting circuits?


First of all- The headlight and taillight run off DC as mentioned above. The specification will be the same as AU. I see a lot of people posting that they are AC power and another was LED's (you) but they are all WRONG! CLICK HERE. and HERE.


The reason that I told him to check the charging circuit is to see if the stator was grounded. Also so I know what power and how much is coming from the stator.

Kicking the bike WILL give a constant reading as the regulator WILL be doing it's job. Obviously it may start low and end low but you CAN still get a constant reading (obviously with the help of the decompression lever in my case).

I also asked that the ignition circuit be checked as this is the problem. The reason is probably that he hasn't floated the ground.

The main earth grounds through the bolt and does not have to earth to the frame as such.

Oh- In addition, I asked for the details of the exact Tusk lighting kit because it is hard for me to help (or anyone) without knowing this.

I thought I was helping the OP, now I seem to be helping you.

Edited by Barra8, June 08, 2013 - 09:56 PM.


  • miweber929

Posted June 09, 2013 - 06:33 AM

#17

First of all- The headlight and taillight run off DC as mentioned above. The specification will be the same as AU. I see a lot of people posting that they are AC power and another was LED's (you) but they are all WRONG! CLICK HERE. and HERE.


.........now I seem to be helping you.


You are so wrong it's scary.

- How is linking light bulb specs proving anything DC vs. AC? You can run either through it, hell you can, now hold on, run LESS voltage through it as well and it will still light. Dimmer, but still work. And if you turn on your ignition an the headlight doesn't come on its because its running from AC power generated by a running motor. If it lights, then its running DC from the battery. Electronics 101, and US spec bikes are off road only and run a combined AC/DC system with AC in the lights and DC for the ignition/charging system. OP said lights and such work so obviously his DC part is functional.

- Unless you remove the spark plug and kick and kick and kick and kick (you hopefully get the idea) you'll get readings but it takes consistency to get a true reading, like a running bike. It's not a bad regulator, end of that.

- Tusk kit if you look online (or listen to someone who has one, say me) is nothing but a wiring harness that directly attaches to the battery and runs completely separate from the bike wiring. Unless you get fancy and run your AC headlight power through their headlight switch then technically you are combining power systems between the kit and the bike.

So try those for starters, get back to me on any questions and see if you are really "helping" me and anyone else. I'm done with going over this with you so enjoy.

OP, good luck. Lots of what's being said here is good advice though mixed with lots of needless crap and mis-information. It sounds like your stator is not hooked up right as its meant to change the system to a floating ground type (sorry my auto correct changed that in my last post) and you are not getting the coil voltage like you should. Double check your wiring diagram and contact Ricky to see if they can help as well, they are good like that.

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 09, 2013 - 10:58 AM

#18

Those were US spec's (and AU)! I don't know why you feel the need to say I'm wrong when you are on this one?

The things you said in your last post do not make sense, the more I try the more it seems wrong. If you are trying to say that AC CAN touch DC you are definitely wrong as it will cause a lightning bolt (like AC/DC the band).

I'm not commenting on anything else that you say so good luck helping the OP.

  • Do I Care?

Posted June 09, 2013 - 11:28 AM

#19

I would like to hear your version of how the ignition system works, Mike. How exactly does it work?

  • miweber929

Posted June 09, 2013 - 07:34 PM

#20

Those were US spec's (and AU)! I don't know why you feel the need to say I'm wrong when you are on this one?

The things you said in your last post do not make sense, the more I try the more it seems wrong. If you are trying to say that AC CAN touch DC you are definitely wrong as it will cause a lightning bolt (like AC/DC the band).

I'm not commenting on anything else that you say so good luck helping the OP.


Re-read my post again, this time thinking. Never do I say AC and DC can or do touch, just that they both are running through the bike powering different systems. The comprehension is a big part of it.

I would like to hear your version of how the ignition system works, Mike. How exactly does it work?


AC is generated from the stator but having gone through the regulator/rectifier before it reaches the CDI, so its actually DC. The lights run off of AC through additional coils in the stator.

Any more questions?






 
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