29 replies to this topic

[Baja Rambler TT Silver Member]

DMC707, on 19 May 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Whats wrong with the 250X?  - a little valve maintenance every now and then,  but thats life in the fast lane ----  seems like Honda has been making a better offroad bike than the XR since '04

When you say "maintenance," what do you mean, exactly?  Is that adjustment or replacement?  How often?

[DMC707 TT Platinum Member]

Baja Rambler, on 19 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

When you say "maintenance," what do you mean, exactly?  Is that adjustment or replacement?  How often?

Well.... I know the CRF-X's aren't as anvil strong as the XR's,  and you have to take some minor precautions with radiators,  but it wouldn't be uncommon to get 50-75 hours use between adjustments and 150 hours before it needs valves,  at which point if the valves are replaced with stainless steel ,  valve life will increase even more.
---- I actually spend much more cash on tires/chains and sprockets and other consumables than I do on valves --  its a tradeoff that's worth it to me for the increased performance and modern chassis ---  
granted, the X does not have the performance of a MX model and shouldn't be lumped in with those bikes -- some of which have 25 hour valve life and 75 hour engine life --- the X is much easier on the pocjketbook than an R model,  but still needs a touch more attention than the XR for sure

------- Still,  the idea of an air cooled  4 stroke  in a modern chassis sounds cool -- perhaps with an oil cooler in the same place as a rad. would be on an X model or something ,  but the only way it would be worth it would be if it were perhaps 20 lbs lighter than an X model CRF  (just my thoughts and YMMV )

[Baja Rambler TT Silver Member]

That's not too bad.  In the desert that would work out to a valve adjustment every 2-3,000 miles and valves at 6,000.  A lot of XRs don't go that far due to poor maintenance, but they don't usually explode.  Are modern four-strokes ticking time bombs if not maintained properly?  

I rode a YZ426 and hated the powerband.

[DMC707 TT Platinum Member]

Baja Rambler, on 19 May 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

That's not too bad.  In the desert that would work out to a valve adjustment every 2-3,000 miles and valves at 6,000.  A lot of XRs don't go that far due to poor maintenance, but they don't usually explode.  Are modern four-strokes ticking time bombs if not maintained properly?  

I rode a YZ426 and hated the powerband.

I have to admit -- some of the MX 4 stroke 250F's (and a couple of 450F's)  seem to be.   sadly enough, they are usually Kawi or Suzuki products ----   the guy who helps me take care of my stuff also wrenches part time for a pretty high level rider (and former factory rider) --and stated that the full race full 250F's are designed to last 1 race , which is a 10 minute heat (or possibly 2) plus a 20 minute main and a practice session .   This is not to be confused with a bike off the showroom --- these are 250F's producing close to 50 hp's vs maybe 40-42 max for a showroom 250-4 --   even still , the MX bikes are a bit higher strung in all areas from cam dimensions , valve timing, hotter ignitions, and compression ---- the stock 250-F's are 20-30 hour engines between recommended top end re-builds much less valve adjustment -------  that can be a lot of racing if that is straight MX at 10,000 RPM-- that's basically a whole season if racing is ther only use

   The trail and Dez oriented 4 strokes (mainly the CRF-X and the WR) aren't tuned this way -- yes they are a bit down on power in comparison, but this equates to a little better service life, -- coupled with the fact that off-road riding , - while extremely stressful on the drivetrain, tires, sometimes the tranny, as well as lots of other stuff exposed to rocks and roots,  is not really as stressful on the engine itself as even novice class MX,  -- unless a person really doesn't have a single clue about how to ride and never shifts or something

---------oh, and e-start will spoil you too -- LOL

Edited by DMC707, Yesterday, 08:24 PM.

[johnniesummers TT Newbie]

DMC707, on 19 May 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Well.... I know the CRF-X's aren't as anvil strong as the XR's,  and you have to take some minor precautions with radiators,  but it wouldn't be uncommon to get 50-75 hours use between adjustments and 150 hours before it needs valves,  at which point if the valves are replaced with stainless steel ,  valve life will increase even more.
---- I actually spend much more cash on tires/chains and sprockets and other consumables than I do on valves --  its a tradeoff that's worth it to me for the increased performance and modern chassis ---  
granted, the X does not have the performance of a MX model and shouldn't be lumped in with those bikes -- some of which have 25 hour valve life and 75 hour engine life --- the X is much easier on the pocjketbook than an R model,  but still needs a touch more attention than the XR for sure

------- Still,  the idea of an air cooled  4 stroke  in a modern chassis sounds cool -- perhaps with an oil cooler in the same place as a rad. would be on an X model or something ,  but the only way it would be worth it would be if it were perhaps 20 lbs lighter than an X model CRF  (just my thoughts and YMMV )

I've had ideas along those exact lines. Finding a blown cr/crf and craming an xr motor in with oil tank/cooler in place of radiators.

[Baja trail Rider TT Gold Member]

Here we go again 250x runs so many hours.On real bikes we go by years not hours.We did buy some,250/450x s (because Im a honda guy)Well because of real world riding,means not a little work to keep them going.We did not sell our Xrs,got rid of the X s.Had to get Yamaha Wr 250-450s.No more broken cranks,no more valve adj (on 4 day ride) no more having to take new bikes to put SS valves in them.Shame on you Honda,for not making a bike that lasts.The yamahas are 04-to 09  valves are still in spec.So Old Xrs-Wrs are years bikes ,not hour bikes like the Xs.Since I have to work on the bikes,I tell it like it is.BTR

[MLB007 TT Bronze Member]

Sierra_rider, on 18 May 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

It's about as likely as Oprah getting a man.

She's got more money than God. Bet she gets plenty of men.

[GU520 TT Bronze Member]

Terminatr, on 17 May 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Is there any chance Honda will bring back the XR 250 line in the near future?

No, not here in Europe at least.  The old design wont pass the new, and ever stricter emission laws.  Bummer for those  that have no interest in high strung,  computerized, high rpm, frequent rebuild race bikes..  but still want a capable dirt bike.

[YHGEORGE TT Addict]

Baja trail Rider, on 20 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Here we go again 250x runs so many hours.On real bikes we go by years not hours.We did buy some,250/450x s (because Im a honda guy)Well because of real world riding,means not a little work to keep them going.We did not sell our Xrs,got rid of the X s.Had to get Yamaha Wr 250-450s.No more broken cranks,no more valve adj (on 4 day ride) no more having to take new bikes to put SS valves in them.Shame on you Honda,for not making a bike that lasts.The yamahas are 04-to 09  valves are still in spec.So Old Xrs-Wrs are years bikes ,not hour bikes like the Xs.Since I have to work on the bikes,I tell it like it is.BTR

This.

[DMC707 TT Platinum Member]

Baja trail Rider, on 20 May 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Here we go again 250x runs so many hours.On real bikes we go by years not hours.

I certainly respect your opinion,  but will hearken back to the days when consumers littered sites like this with  "When will Honda make a bike that's competitive?" --- or  "Why do I have to buy a KTM to get an off road racing bike?"

The X still needs a bit of work to go racing or spirited trail riding  , but its a lot closer than the XR (although a talented rider can certainly make any bike sing a bit if the suspension is tuned right)   --- and a racing machine's lifespan is definitely measured in hours, not years ------- and it would still be a "real" bike,  but its semantics ---  for 10 mph trail cruising, an XR may very well be  a great choice for Paw Paw out for a Sunday cruise,  and would last a decade under that type of usage with little maintenance,  but I know a lot of people who would gladly trade a little wrench turnin' for more performance   ---- but I understand where you are coming from if you are taking care of a fleet too ---- as for me, I just take care of 2 bikes (and an odd assortment of kids bikes and 4 wheelers- LOL)  -- valve life is not a problem with that kind of inventory
    The WR is a great bike too,  but i'm curious why the '12-'13 450  hasn't really turned into the world beater I thought it would be when it was introduced , --but The 450X is still winning a lot of races,  and Paul Whibley still uses a YZ-F over the WR --granted these are pro's ,  but all  the technology of the WR hasn't supplanted the X to any degree