How often to change oil? What kind to run mobile 1 delvac, rotella, maxima, yamalube, honda oil and etc.


43 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted April 10, 2013 - 01:55 PM

#21

HEUI, which was developed by Caterpillar in 1993, does use oil to drive the injectors, but it uses only engine oil pressure to accomplish that. The injector itself is still lubed only by fuel on the high pressure output side, and the oil is not exposed to any extraordinarily high shearing effects as a result. The D-6278 test runs oil through the high pressure, fuel circuit side of the injector in the same manner that fuel is delivered by one, and there's a tremendous difference between the 2500 PSI opening and slamming shut of that side of the injector and the 60-80 psi delivered by the oil pump.

If your clutch slips with either of the oils you mentioned, it has a correctable problem not related to the oil. That's also a fact.

  • luckyguy19

Posted April 10, 2013 - 02:11 PM

#22

http://www.archoil.c...n Explained.pdf

These engines have a dedicated HPOP (high pressure oil pump), they do not run the injectors on normal engine oil pressure.

  • slothman

Posted April 10, 2013 - 02:34 PM

#23

some bikes get clutch slip with the mobil 1 full syn, which is why I don't use it. But every bike is different. I don't think brand is that important, as long as you change the oil frequently and clean/replace the filter

  • grayracer513

Posted April 10, 2013 - 04:05 PM

#24

some bikes get clutch slip with the mobil 1 full syn, which is why I don't use it. But every bike is different. I don't think brand is that important, as long as you change the oil frequently and clean/replace the filter


"Mobil1 Full Synthetic" describes about 75% or more of the entire Mobil1 line. Of those, AT LEAST half are API Energy Conserving Level II (ECII) oils that are absolutely NOT JASO MA/MA2 compliant, and should not be used with a wet clutch. Only the two motorcycle specific oils, Racing 4T 10w-40, and V-Twin 20w-50 are labeled as compliant, and only those should be trusted with a wet clutch unless testing shows they will work.

Again, if any YZF slips with any JASO MA oil, the clutch needs work. Don't blame the oil.

  • Yzflier977

Posted April 10, 2013 - 06:00 PM

#25

Rotella's been working for me so I'll keep on with that until it proves me wrong. Also a fan of change it often for peace of mind. Oil is cheap insurance regardless the price.

  • slothman

Posted April 11, 2013 - 10:05 AM

#26

"Mobil1 Full Synthetic" describes about 75% or more of the entire Mobil1 line. Of those, AT LEAST half are API Energy Conserving Level II (ECII) oils that are absolutely NOT JASO MA/MA2 compliant, and should not be used with a wet clutch. Only the two motorcycle specific oils, Racing 4T 10w-40, and V-Twin 20w-50 are labeled as compliant, and only those should be trusted with a wet clutch unless testing shows they will work.

Again, if any YZF slips with any JASO MA oil, the clutch needs work. Don't blame the oil.


I know lots of guys that run the mobil 1 syn **car** oil in their 4 stroke street bike motorcycles, with no complaints. But **some** do get clutch slip.

I personally only run JASO MA2 oil ;)

  • grayracer513

Posted April 11, 2013 - 11:06 AM

#27

Some M1 automotive blends are OK. Their high mileage, Truck & SUV ("C", Commercial, Diesel), and the Extended Performance stuff at 10w-40 or higher is usually OK. You should avoid anything marked API ECII, though.

  • slothman

Posted April 11, 2013 - 12:51 PM

#28

Some M1 automotive blends are OK. Their high mileage, Truck & SUV ("C", Commercial, Diesel), and the Extended Performance stuff at 10w-40 or higher is usually OK. You should avoid anything marked API ECII, though.


Do you happen to know if the M1 "high mileage" 10w-40 is JASO MA ? If it is I might give it a whirl in my 450f.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 11, 2013 - 01:06 PM

#29

It may be "compliant", but it's not on the label. I know the 10w-30 HM I use in the truck makes no mention of it, but it also doesn't claim to be ECII. You'd have to try it on your own, run it for 3-4 hours and have it analyzed to know how it works.

  • Gunner354

Posted April 12, 2013 - 07:32 AM

#30

HEUI, which was developed by Caterpillar in 1993, does use oil to drive the injectors, but it uses only engine oil pressure to accomplish that. The injector itself is still lubed only by fuel on the high pressure output side, and the oil is not exposed to any extraordinarily high shearing effects as a result. The D-6278 test runs oil through the high pressure, fuel circuit side of the injector in the same manner that fuel is delivered by one, and there's a tremendous difference between the 2500 PSI opening and slamming shut of that side of the injector and the 60-80 psi delivered by the oil pump.

If your clutch slips with either of the oils you mentioned, it has a correctable problem not related to the oil. That's also a fact.

The Heui does not use the 60-80 psi to drive the injectors, at least on Powerstroke 7.3's. The oil is fed to another pump which in turn raises the oil to a very high pressure that drives the injector. It's been awhile, but I think it develops somewhere between 2 and 3,000 psi and the fuel can reach over 20,000psi. Not try to start a war but rather trying to keep things factual. Education and knowledge are a great thing.

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  • grayracer513

Posted April 12, 2013 - 08:19 AM

#31

Yes, there is a booster pump in the system. According to Caterpillar, the high end of the range is 4,000 psi, so yes, it puts an abnormally high load on the engine oil, but compare this to the fuel side of the injector. Even if the fuel line pressure was no higher than the operating oil pressure, there is one single pressure spike on the driving side of the system produced usually by a camshaft, and the sudden increase in pressure is tough on oil. At 2000 RPM in a Diesel V8, then, there are 8000 such events per minute. Within the injector, however, things are different. When "fired" the injector pintel cycles up and down under this high pressure at a very much higher frequency, often as high as 6000 hz. When testing an injector outside the engine, you can hear this, as the injector will produce a fairly high pitched "beep" as it fires. That's what makes the D-6278 test so tough.

The issue with viscosity stability is shear forces that shred the long chain polymers that enable a 10wt base oil to behave like a 40 wt when it gets hot. The importance of this to a motorcycle that shares engine oil with the transmission is that the trans dishes this kind of abuse out better than anything else on the bike. Third gear in a YZ450 at 8000 RPM produces 54857 high pressure shearing events per minute by mashing oil between its teeth under power amplified by the primary reduction ratio. If the oil was not blended for use in transmissions, that will add up much faster than it does in a Diesel engine with HEUI.

  • mudguy

Posted April 12, 2013 - 08:39 AM

#32

...Unless you ride a honda which has split engine/transmission oils...

Not trying to troll, but really, it is kind of stupid to use one kind of oil for two very different purposes.

Is the "best oil" the one that makes your clutch happy, or the one that makes your engine happy?

  • grayracer513

Posted April 12, 2013 - 11:12 AM

#33

In the case of the YZ450, it has to do both, and that IS possible.

I will agree that the idea of separating the oil supplies as in the CRF is a better approach, although in the Honda I really think that 700cc for the total of engine oil is cutting things a little close. :naughty:

IMO, the YZF's could and should have been built as dry sump engines with a discreet trans oil supply.

  • Gunner354

Posted April 12, 2013 - 11:56 AM

#34

...Unless you ride a honda which has split engine/transmission oils...

Not trying to troll, but really, it is kind of stupid to use one kind of oil for two very different purposes.

Is the "best oil" the one that makes your clutch happy, or the one that makes your engine happy?


Stupid? Well all old style Hondas like the XR models and most other 4 strokes from that era had the same oil for the transmission and motor.
There is one really good oil that I have proven to be outstanding in the Yamaha. When you can have a B level kid have over 300 hrs on the motor without even one clutch change, valve adjustment, timing chain it speaks for itself. Redline oil costs a lot but it really comes down to "you get what you pay for". Yes a lot of people say I run Rotella and just change it a lot. Everyone has different beliefs, but I am one that makes decisions based on a lot of reading and understanding facts. A lot of of people base decisions on some weird emotional attachment and have no idea what they are talking about. I'm amazed on a day basis.

Edited by Gunner354, April 12, 2013 - 11:58 AM.


  • grayracer513

Posted April 12, 2013 - 12:26 PM

#35

You should know that I've had results along the same lines with the oils I've used over the years, too.

  • Yzflier977

Posted April 12, 2013 - 01:10 PM

#36

"Facts" are funny things with todays internet and information being so readily available. Problem is with enough research you can find any article with "facts" to support whatever your cause is. I am not the most knowledgeable about the specific scientific properties of this oil or that oil, viscosity breakdown over a certain period of time, etc. Nor do I care to be, I have better things to do with my time than fill my head with mundane information that impacts my world on such a small scale. Not knocking those who find that fascinating enough to learn, knowledge is a good thing. Just understand that not everyone shares another's passion for information or details. Belittling someone for their "feelings" or opinions about a particular subject is small minded if they don't happen to line up with your own. To each their own I say, if you're information oriented or feeling oriented it's no skin off my nose or anyone else's for that matter. Again just my opinion for what that's worth.....

  • mudguy

Posted April 12, 2013 - 01:43 PM

#37

Speaking of facts, any Jaso MA rated oil is good enough according to the manufacturer.

  • DGXR

Posted April 16, 2013 - 02:19 PM

#38

In my YZ400F I was using Castrol full synthetic moto oil because that's what the previous owner used. In my XR500R I was using Valvoline 4-stroke oil (petroleum) because it's just a big trail bike. They both got new top ends and new clutches, and after the initial wear-in with petroleum oil, my mechanic recommended a synthetic blend because they help the tranny shift smoother than a full synthetic, also a full syn is kind of a waste since the oil should be changed often enough that it doesn't get a chance to shear to the point of breakdown. I found a deal on Maxima Synblend4 10w40 and my mechanic said that would be a great choice. Been using that for a while now, the engines run great and the clutches don't slip. No problems.

Edited by DGXR, April 16, 2013 - 02:20 PM.


  • grayracer513

Posted April 16, 2013 - 02:27 PM

#39

... my mechanic recommended a synthetic blend because they help the tranny shift smoother than a full synthetic, also a full syn is kind of a waste since oil changed regularly doesn't get a chance to shear to the point of breakdown.


Both the two "facts" your mechanic gave you are myths.

The Syn blend vs full syn in the trans improving shifting is just simple BS.

The previous rendition of Rotella T6 full synthetic, before the recent reformulation, could be broken down from a 5w-40 to a 5w-25 or 5w-30 in under two hours run time in a YZ250F. The elements ordinarily associated with engine oil performance were not at fault, and were not involved. It was the components that adapt a multi-grade oil for transmission use that were the culprits. That's been my point right along, but only about 25% of people seem to get that.

  • DGXR

Posted April 16, 2013 - 03:28 PM

#40

So you're saying use any moto-specific JASO/JASO2 specification? And change it how often? :confused:





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