Too much oil in 426f engine locked up.. advice?


13 replies to this topic
  • wilddeuces

Posted March 29, 2013 - 04:13 PM

#1

I got a '01 YZ426F a couple weeks ago, it ran well until the 2nd day out riding I was about to run out of gas so I was trying to get home when it felt like the bike locked up.. I feared the worst and thought it was seized, but when I went to take the tank off, I realized it was infact empty. So I pulled the right side cover & valve cover and all looked ok.. I changed the oil filter and there were aluminum particles in there. I looked around online and found out that is pretty normal for these.

I was able to back the bike up a little bit & the engine turned freely and seemed to be fine. I figured I had just "vapor locked" the engine. I decided to do an oil change, when I changed the oil filter there were aluminum particles in there. I looked around online and found out that is pretty normal for these. so I put a new oil filter in and 48 fl oz of Rotella T then decided to go riding..

I started it up and made it about 1/2 mile into a field then it just died/tied up and wouldn't unlock from rolling backwards.

I started working on it today and when I drained the oil [color=#ff0000]72 fl oz[/color] came out!! I had drained the oil out of the holding tank but not the bottom end before adding the new oil.. Now I'm trying to figure out what the damage to the engine is.

What would be the most likely failures from having 24 fl oz of extra oil in the engine? It seems like the case would be quite full..

I put it in gear to try to rock it to see if it'd break free, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd work fine (rolls a couple inches then locks up) but 4th & 5th act like neutral.. It seems unlikely that the trans would fail at the same time as I believe this failure is due to the extra oil and I don't see how that would mess up the trans, more than likely the rod IMO..

What's the best way to trouble shoot this further? Any ideas??

Also when I pulled the plug it was dry, so the oil didn't make it past the rings

Thanks for any help you can provide!!

  • f150jokerstyle

Posted March 29, 2013 - 04:33 PM

#2

I know my 450 has a breather on the frame that goes to the valve cover then from there a breather from the valve cover to free air. I would think over filling it would just make a big mess while riding and thats about it. Have you tried filling it correctly and starting it?

  • etuke

Posted March 29, 2013 - 05:02 PM

#3

The pump should have returned unused oil to the tank and overflowed it if it was too much(thats my understanding anyways).Shouldn't have gathered in the engine unless the oil pump gave out.You should probably check the crank for seizure or some other issues.

  • wilddeuces

Posted March 29, 2013 - 05:41 PM

#4

The bottom end appears to be locked up solid.. Any ideas on the trans though? It seems weird that it'll shift through 1-N-2-3 fine but 4th is like another neutral and it won't even try to shift into 5th..

I'm assuming at this point I need to split the cases and see what's going on in there..

Thanks for the replies

  • wilddeuces

Posted March 30, 2013 - 10:40 AM

#5

Any ideas why the trans is missing 4th & 5th?

  • wilddeuces

Posted March 31, 2013 - 08:29 PM

#6

Alright, I tore down the engine today... not pretty... Big end of rod let go and took out the balance shaft, took chunk out of bottom of the jug, cracked piston at the pin, busted up both cases inside, etc.. Basically the head is the only major part that's still good.. A chunk of the big end of the rod was wedged against the shift forks, which is why 4th/5th weren't working..

Anyone got an engine they'd like to sell? Any leads would be appreciated..

Thanks

  • grayracer513

Posted April 01, 2013 - 07:14 AM

#7

So everyone knows, this failure had nothing to do with the extra oil. The only harm that would have resulted form the overfill is a mess.

The reason for the overfill is likely that you did not drain both the oil tank (frame) and the sump (drain plug under trans).

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  • wilddeuces

Posted April 01, 2013 - 12:08 PM

#8

Yes, I forgot to drain the oil out of the engine, I only drained it out of the oil tank (frame) then left it sitting for about 2 weeks before filling it and forgot that I didn't drain the engine :(

I find it hard to believe that the oil didn't contribute to the failure, I mean I drained 1.5 times the volume of oil its supposed to have.. I find it hard to believe that there is enough room for all of that oil without essentially hydro-locking the engine from the bottom (if that makes any sense).. I ran it through the gears and it felt a little sluggish then I turned around and got into 3rd and it just locked up tight.. My thinking is it filled the crank case while I was accelerating untill the piston came down and couldn't return to bottom dead center as there was too much oil, in turn breaking the big end of the rod & cracking the piston at the pin..

Makes sense to me, however that could have just been a contributing factor as it locked up on me before (as I ran out of gas) but my buddy said it was just "vapor lock" from running dry while at full throttle.. I was skeptical, but I was able to roll it backwards and get it unlocked so I changed the oil then this failure happened..

I could see over-filling it a little not being a big deal normally, but I do think that in this case it contribured to the failure

  • slothman

Posted April 01, 2013 - 01:25 PM

#9

wow that sux bro....sorry to hear.

If I were you I would part out that bike and buy a 450.

  • f150jokerstyle

Posted April 01, 2013 - 02:10 PM

#10

Yes, I forgot to drain the oil out of the engine, I only drained it out of the oil tank (frame) then left it sitting for about 2 weeks before filling it and forgot that I didn't drain the engine :(

I find it hard to believe that the oil didn't contribute to the failure, I mean I drained 1.5 times the volume of oil its supposed to have.. I find it hard to believe that there is enough room for all of that oil without essentially hydro-locking the engine from the bottom (if that makes any sense).. I ran it through the gears and it felt a little sluggish then I turned around and got into 3rd and it just locked up tight.. My thinking is it filled the crank case while I was accelerating untill the piston came down and couldn't return to bottom dead center as there was too much oil, in turn breaking the big end of the rod & cracking the piston at the pin..

Makes sense to me, however that could have just been a contributing factor as it locked up on me before (as I ran out of gas) but my buddy said it was just "vapor lock" from running dry while at full throttle.. I was skeptical, but I was able to roll it backwards and get it unlocked so I changed the oil then this failure happened..

I could see over-filling it a little not being a big deal normally, but I do think that in this case it contribured to the failure


The only thing that should happen from adding to much oil is an increase in crank case pressure. Which as Grey said will cause a huge mess out of the breather tube and possibly blow oil seals out in an extreme case. I have seen 60Liter engines grossly over filled(like 20 gallons over on a 50 gallon system) with oil to the point where the 1" breather tube is pumping oil out of it in a solid column at quite a few PSI now that is a big mess! P.S. I was only there to figure out why this was happening lol! Also lets say the increase in crank case pressure somehow caused say a condition where you lost oil pressure. I know on my buddies 03 450 he locked up the piston to jug twice before finally figuring out that the clutch cushions were chunking off plugging all the oil passageways with in the first minuets of start up and his bike received no bottom end wear to speak of from the lack of oil. That being said I think the stars alined correctly or incorectly in your case and you either had a bearing failure or a material failure of the rod.

Also you started your story saying before you ever touched the oil and over filled it the bike locked up on you and then unlocked after playing with it. That was probably the initial failure and by playing with it something got happy again(most likely bearing) and you did your oil change and ran it again and BAM total failure.

I feel for you and I'm sorry this happened to you but don't beat your self up because the extra oil like Grey said was not your reason for failure. Keep a look out on ebay and check local bike yards if you have any around. Also depending on how much you have into the bike it may be better to part out and move on. I'm sure if you take your time you could get a grand or more without the motor or with what motor parts are still good.

  • wilddeuces

Posted April 01, 2013 - 02:24 PM

#11

Thanks for the condolences guys. I figured it was probably on its way out aswell, but I still think the over-full oil probably contributed to it..

I found a good deal on a 426f bottom end in Boston, but the guy isn't willing to ship it :(

  • deizel

Posted April 02, 2013 - 06:35 PM

#12

Im new here but have been reading up before joining and wanted to tell you there is a guy on ebay parting out his and he is cheap 80-2nv is his id

  • wilddeuces

Posted April 05, 2013 - 02:13 PM

#13

Thanks for the reply, however that seller doesn't currently have any items posted for sale on ebay..

  • Deepseadan

Posted April 07, 2013 - 08:07 AM

#14

When I bought my old 02 426 it had an oil blockoff kit. That means the frame is blocked off and all the oil is kept in the case (wet sump). Right before I bought it, the idiots at my local shop some how overfilled it and put 2.3 quarts in it. It's only supposed to hold a max of .7 of a quart. I'm guessing they didn't drain the oil and added 1.5 quarts to it. Either way it did no damage and the bike was ridden with it like that. I ended up returning it to a dry sump and the bike is still running good ( because my brother owns it now). Him and I always run around 1.8 quarts in it to.

Edited by Deepseadan, April 07, 2013 - 08:09 AM.






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