650R suspension question

17 replies to this topic
  • rnrdozer

Posted November 30, 2003 - 09:15 PM


I'm trying to set up my suspension on my 650R and could use some advice. I looked in my manual for the stock settings for compression and rebound but could not find it anywhere. also I was trying to set the rear sag at 4in. but when I got it there the static sag was at around 3in. does this mean the spring is too stiff or is this bike set up diffrent than some. I dont think the spring could be too stiff because I only went up 1 size on the rear spring and I weigh in at a healthy 225 lbs. thanks in advance for any help!!

  • h23daniel

Posted November 30, 2003 - 10:01 PM


Just sell that sled and buy a crf450...LOL

  • Big_D

Posted November 30, 2003 - 10:48 PM


First to actually ANSWER your question, on page 1-9 of my '00-'02 service manual it gives the standard clicker settings as follows.

Compression - 11 clicks out from full in
Rebound - 9 clicks out from full in

Compression - 6-10 clicks out from full in
Reboud - 11-15 clicks out from full in

I would also go check out the Spring Rate calculator at RaceTech. www.racetech.com After filling out the forms it will give you recomended spring rates, sag, and clickers which is a good place to start.

And remember suspension is a very personal thing that changes with your abilities so keep notes and experement till you are happy. :D Personally I still have the standard valves in mine with a bit more compression dialed in the forks and springs on the heavy side of the racetech recomendation. :)

  • BWB63

Posted December 01, 2003 - 04:08 PM


In less you weigh less then 180# or ride it like you should of got the "L". Then you'll need more then just turning the clickers. The stock bike comes with .43kg springs in the forks. That is for a 180# person and 9.2kg shock spring which is for a 160# person. .45kg fork springs are needed for 200 to 220# and .47kg for 220 to 240#. 10 kg shock spring for 200 to 220#, 10.5kg for 220 to 240# persons with the 11kg for 240 to 260# and the 11.5kg for 260 to 280#. I run the .45kg Eibach fork springs and Eibach 10kg shock spring. I weigh 190 pounds. The only time I hit bottom is if I don't stiffen the compression before jumping and come up sort on the table tops or I leave a seven foot drop off on the fly thruogh the desert. I run 2.5wt Golden Spectro in the forks with a stiffer shim stack and a stock valve drilled out with a #27 drill bit. I am running 3wt Maxima shock oil in the shock with the shim stack reshuffled to have the cross over shims moved down to be in order in size for both the compression and rebound stacks. I run 240 pounds nitrogen in the shock. :)

  • Miker

Posted December 01, 2003 - 08:58 PM


I weigh 220 and just ordered my springs today for my 2000 XR650R and their web site recomended I get 49kg springs for the front and 10.5 in the rear. Are you mistaken or did I order the wrong springs??

  • qadsan

Posted December 01, 2003 - 09:08 PM


Some guys at that weight seem to like the stiffer 49kg front springs. I'm 6'5 @ 225lbs and use the Eibach 47kg front springs and a Eibach 10.5 rear with good results.

I believe Eibach makes the front springs for Race Tech, but I believe they're made to different specifications. The Eibach's are full length springs and do not require preload spacers where as the Race Tech's are shorter (or they used to be) and require preload spacers.

  • BWB63

Posted December 01, 2003 - 10:19 PM


In less you running MX a .47kg will be more then enough. Lindemann Engineering has the best prices. (408)371-6151 These are full length spring that do not need spacers.

  • Miker

Posted December 01, 2003 - 11:03 PM


So I checked linderman out and found out I spent 40.00 more at racetech than I would have at linderman. that does not make me very happy. :D I e-mailed them asking why there stuff cost more. I will let you know what they say. :)

  • XR650_DIrtman

Posted December 02, 2003 - 09:05 AM


Just was at Lindemann's shop yesterday. Got 0.50 springs and the 11.5 Eibach rear spring per his (Jim Lindemann) recommendation. Me being 260 / 6.5

Put the bike together yesterday evening, works like a charm.

Great service and great pricing. I can only recommend Jim and his crew.

They changed the rear shock spring on the spot without leaving my shock there or having a set time and date. I had called them though and announced that I would be picking up my ordered stuff.

Total price: 194,00 including the labor ($10) , 2 front springs, the rear spring and CA tax.

Took me about 20 minutes to get everything done.

Jim and LE :)


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  • qadsan

Posted December 02, 2003 - 10:44 AM


So I checked linderman out and found out I spent 40.00 more at racetech than I would have at linderman...

If you bought Race Tech products as a consumer, then you'll get them cheaper most of the time from a dealer than you would from the source. Most companies that sell their products through dealers sell their products at full retail so they don't compete with their dealers. Many companies want their dealers to be more price competitive to encourage growth, which in turn helps them grow. It's like anything else and you've got to shop around if you want to save money because prices on many items can vary significantly, but shopping can be time consuming. You can buy a Corvette directly from GM and pick it up at the plant where its manufactured, but you'll pay alot more for it than you would from a dealer who has some flexibility in their pricing and there can still be significant pricing differences among dealers. We just saved ~$2,000 on buying a new vehicle out of state for one of my son's this last weekend when compared to the fleet/internet prices we received from more than a dozen dealers in our local area and that's a significant chunk of change for a vehicle costing less than $20K. I paid $3450 + dealer fees + shipping (less than $4K total delivered to me) for my brand new left over 2001 XR650R nearly two years ago when a dealer in CO was blowing them out while a neighbor of mine paid closer to $7K for his XR650R, so it definitley pays to shop around no matter what product you're after.

  • BWB63

Posted December 02, 2003 - 10:56 AM


Race Tech is not a source for all there products but, a retailer. (I live 40 miles from the business and have been there and buy my shims from them) Lindemann makes the springs for the sources. He is the source for the spring makers, they put there name on them but, he makes them. :)

  • qadsan

Posted December 02, 2003 - 01:54 PM


Lindemann makes the springs for the sources. He is the source for the spring makers, they put there name on them but, he makes them.

You're right about Race Tech not being a source for all of their products that have the Race Tech name on them, but Lindemann works with an outside spring maker and does not make their own springs, nor are they the source for springs when it comes to other companies like Eibach. Lindemann has less than 4 people working for them! They are however a ‘great’ company to deal with (great prices & good service) and can even have custom springs made at very reasonable prices :).

Eibach on the other hand truly manufacturers their own springs and they’re the OEM to Race Tech and many other companies who have their names branded on Eibach products based on OEM requirements. There are not a lot of companies like Eibach who actually have the facilities, staffing, expertise & equipment to produce their own springs on such a large scale. Eibach has manufacturing facilities in Germany, Japan, England, and the United States and their U.S. plant that used to be in Irvine, CA housed manufacturing, engineering, and sales in a 50,000 square feet building while another 15,000+ square foot building was also used for additional warehouse space, but they’ve since moved to a new facility in Corona CA in late January of this year 2003 and their building can be seen right off the 91 freeway. Their new facility is a whopping 250,000 square feet and it houses everything under one roof such as sales, R&D, Q/A, Engineering, warehouse, etc. I don’t know a bunch about them anymore as things have changed over the years, but I still remember some things about them.

For instance, Eibach's monthly spring production in the older Irvine California plant used to be 30,000 to 40,000 units and that was well over year ago, but I'm sure it has significnatly increased since them. With the new facility, I've heard their fill rates are close to 98% which is very impressive. Eibach is also an original equipment supplier to Ferrari, BMW, Volkswagen, Ford, Hyundai and other auto manufacturers and supplies springs to the racing industry for Alfa Romeo, AMG, BMW Motorsports, Ferrari, Ford, and Lola among other companies.

Their springs are cold formed from precision drawn wire that's typically made from a steel which is high in chromium and silicon to make it more fatigue resistant for cyclic stress and the springs are produced in computer controlled hydraulic coil winding machines that can chew up about 180 feet per minute of spring wire (about 400 finished parts per hour). Then the springs go into an oven for a heat treatment process that further increases strength and fatigue resistance. From there the springs are peened with steel shot to further increase fatigue strength by another 40% or so, which greatly adds to the overall spring life. A different machine grinds the coil ends flat and perpendicular to the center line of the spring with exacting tolerances based on various world class specifications they have to meet. The springs are also put through another process in another machine to relive stress by compressing them until the coils bind which sets the final free length so that the springs have a consistent length no matter how much they’re compressed (within reason of course). Ten percent of the springs go through a final inspection to ensure ongoing quality. Each spring is sprayed with phosphate and then powder coated for corrosion resistance and finally the spring rate is printed on the coil before it’s packaged, unless there are different OEM requirements.

  • BWB63

Posted December 02, 2003 - 05:08 PM


It was this group that told me he made his own springs. That's how I got his number. Guess the info was wrong. :) He does seem to always have the .47kg springs in stock.

  • BWB63

Posted December 02, 2003 - 05:32 PM


I got this sent to me and is a good place to talk it over.

(I was going to post this and still can I guess but it seemed off topic from "A weekend with the pigs", so its based on ya'lls supension talk)

From what I hear riding with reworked supension is like night and day, true?

I am 160-165 so I am fairly close to the stock spring setup, could I still benefit from getting my supension done as well?

If I need to get new springs I'd just pay someone to redo valving to suit me as well and do it all at once, If the stock springs are good enough then I'm intrested in attempting valving myself.

I read your Fork Doc on the yahoo group and am perfectly willing to tackle the job but then comes the question about what to change and how much. I saw what you changed but I'm a different size and I ride mainly woods and trails, not the desert stuff you S.Cal fellows ride, and I figured that would make a difference! Is there a standard shim pattern for certain weights and terrains or is it just a play and do it 5-10 times until you find what you like? Where would someone like me start if I wanted to do it myself or should I just wait until I can afford it and get it done right from someone who knows, and gain experience working on a buddies bike !

Has there been enough people doing there own that we could complile a list per rider; weight----terrain & speed----shim configuration---oil type & weight? I have heard of shops having notebooks where they have recorded different settings for different bikes for different situations so they have a starting point, it'd be nice to have a list like that as well. Maybe I'll post my question on the supension thread but I thought I'd ask you since you wrote the Fork Doc and you sound very knowledgable on the subject.

Sorry this is so long but thank you for your time

Sounds like your at that magic weight that few are lucky to be at and own a BRP! For a plusher ride you need lighter fluid in the forks and shock. At your weight and if your not getting air or hitting bottom at your riding leval; changing the fork fluid to 2.5wt may be all you need. It would even be better if you could drill out the valve with a #27 drill bit but, that might be over kill. On the shock a fluid change and a shim restack would help on the drop offs and ruts and most of all the whoops. The big questions would be are you bottoming and are you swapping or out of control at speed through the whoops. What is your limit on air and do you bounce coming up short on the table tops. Like I said, fluid change on the forks to 2.5wt Would be the best start with 110mm from the top (spring out and collapsed). Start with the clickers in the middle position compression and rebound frount and back. Then find the biggest air you will ever want to get and land flat. Adjust till you just come short of bottoming on the compression the if your not bouncing lighten the rebound till you do and then adjust (harder) till it dosn't. Then fine tune it on the worst whoops.

  • J_T

Posted December 02, 2003 - 06:14 PM


BWB! THANKS! That is just the info that I was looking for! I have changed the fluid in the past to get rid of the stock oil but it wasn't an exact science. I am going to replace it with the 2.5 wt and go look for Jumps! Thats kind of like a Doc perscribing junk food and TV, the kind of direction you look forward to following! Most of my riding is just twisty woods w/ roots and ruts and hills, so not much to bottom out on like landing big jumps but I'll see what I can find! I'm open to any more suggestions from anyone.

Thanks for the help

  • qadsan

Posted December 02, 2003 - 06:50 PM


Play with the oil levels as well as the viscosity. What works best for one person doesn't always work best for the next. Experimenting is the key if you've got the time and motivation to do so. Trying this or that or something else will build your experiences to help you hone in on what works best for you. Bruce has some great info in his doc file to work from :)

Many years ago, I used to have myself timed through certain sections of a track after making changes to my suspension and noted my comments with each change so I could later make more sense of things. It was kind of time consuming, but I'd ride a section and then adjust my clickers up or down by about 4 clicks or so or change my oil level, etc. It was pretty easy to feel when things got worse and that's why I used such a gross adjustment like 4+ clicks at a time, but once I found the end points of where things began to feel worse, I could then start honing in on that sweet spot for a given set of circumstances. With video cameras being so cheap nowdays, you could have someone video you on whoops or squared edge bumps, etc, or where ever you're wanting improvements, and possibly get a better handle on what works best for you by watching the way your suspension works in addition to feeling how it works, etc. You'll be rewarded for your efforts and will know how to make quick adjustments to better optimize your suspension for special circumstances such as riding in the sand, etc. Good luck with everything :D

  • irondude

Posted December 02, 2003 - 07:08 PM



nice post about Eibach. I drive by that Corona facility from time to time and wondered what that place was all about.

There's an amazing amount of mis-information on TT, i.e. Lindemans and Eibach springs. Thanks for taking a few minutes to set the record straight.


  • BWB63

Posted December 02, 2003 - 07:54 PM


I found that at Auto Zone they sell a package of big allen head sockets (12mm, 14mm & 17mm) you need the 14mm allen for the bottom of the forks to hold the compression assymbly from turning. They were cheap & easier then making one. :D Don't forget to take out the rubber plug that is in the bottom of each fork. :)

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