[Crusty1]

Probably stating the ovious here but there seems to be a renewed interest in riding 2 strokes. Even after the powers that be-big $$$$ mfg, enviro nuts, etc-- tried their best to make 2 strokes nothing more than museum artifacts. I jumped on the4stroke bandwagon 7 years ago and almost got my kids to follow me but it never happened. One switched for 2 years then back on smokers. The other started on a 50 2t and refused to even consider a 4t option. Now I'm a "closet" 2t guy: I ride the kids when they're not at home on our track and have a hoot:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Everytime I log on to TT I notice there's more people in the 2t section than any other 4t section. This seems odd being that the major mfgs have all but 2 of them quit making/importing 2t into the USA. I know GasGas, Husky, etc. still make/import but I'm not counting them as "major" mfg like Honda, Suzuki, Kawi, etc.

What gives? Is the success of KTM--the Baskin Robbins of offroad--going to make the big guys rethink their "propaganda" strategy?

Will they start making/importing them to the US again anytime soon?

[MegaDeTH]

baskin robins? What does that mean?

[rodgini]

baskin robins? What does that mean?

31 flavors. it's an ice cream joint.

yes people are going back to 2-strokes. there are various reasons for this. they are more fun to ride IMO and waaay cheaper and easier to maintain. they don't overheat on single-track and they make twice the power per CC. they fire first kick and can easily be tuned to your liking for cheap. for the amateur racer or hobby rider it is a no brainer. the competition in amateur racing is so spread out that it really does not matter that you may be 2 seconds faster per lap on the 4-stroke then the 2.

almost everybody I know bought a 4-stroke and loved it back on 05/06
(myself included). rode/raced it for a season and even with constant upkeep the bikes either became tired or blew up. they all did the $1200 + top ends and few did the top and bottom end for 2500+. then they sold them and bought used 2-strokes. if you have the $ and time to keep the bikes running right 4-strokes are great. if you just want to ride and you are physically fit enough to ride a bike that requires input and proper technique then a 2-stroke is the ticket.

the best thing you can do to keep the 2-strokes alive is go buy one. Yamaha still makes the yz125 and yz250. I think they were close to pulling the plug but hung in long enough to see folks get fed up with the 4-strokes and come back to the smokers. I think you will see a new redesigned yz 2-stroke from Yamaha in the next few years. The only question is what could they possibly do to make them any better?

[Zach164]

31 flavors. it's an ice cream joint.


the best thing you can do to keep the 2-strokes alive is go buy one. Yamaha still makes the yz125 and yz250. I think they were close to pulling the plug but hung in long enough to see folks get fed up with the 4-strokes and come back to the smokers. I think you will see a new redesigned yz 2-stroke from Yamaha in the next few years. The only question is what could they possibly do to make them any better?

There is always room for improvement, KTM manages to keep updating their 2 strokes every year and just did a major revision for 2011. The YZ250 can still use the new linkage, swing arm, clutch lever, etc from the 450F. There are still some things that can be added to this bike that will make it even better.

I just bought a 2010, so I hope they don't update it too soon!

[MegaDeTH]

31 flavors. it's an ice cream joint.


? I dont get it, what does that mean? They have a pretty small product line compared to the big 4

[ridleyredraider]

? I dont get it, what does that mean? They have a pretty small product line compared to the big 4

??? http://ktm.com/Models-Accessories.2.20.html

Who else makes 530's, 690's, 950's, 300's, 525's etc?? I counted over 25 models for dirt bikes alone. I'm not a KTM guy, but yes, I agree with the Baskin Robbins quote. You can find exactly what you're looking for with a stock KTM.

:bonk:

[MegaDeTH]

??? http://ktm.com/Models-Accessories.2.20.html

Who else makes 530's, 690's, 950's, 300's, 525's etc?? I counted over 25 models for dirt bikes alone. I'm not a KTM guy, but yes, I agree with the Baskin Robbins quote. You can find exactly what you're looking for with a stock KTM.

:bonk:

bullshit, they have 23 models, and the only line that is even close to redundant is the XC line, they a motocross line, a offroad line, a dualsport line, and a in between line (XC). The sizes are specific to race classes, or big open class (500+), every OEM has a MX line and an offroad line, show me how that's different with ktm?

yamaha has 17, honda has 16, and those two do not even offer real dualsport dirt bikes, and do not have big bores for sale, and they do not make bikes for every race class, honda does not even make a 65 or 85, I did not even bother to count all the dozens more street bikes

I would say it's exactly in line with the rest of the industry, and they offer bikes the big 4 dont even bother with, 2 strokes, and real tagged dirt bikes

[gruberyz]

We have become two stroke fans all over after dabbling in four stroke with CRF450 KX250F and CRF150RB cost to keep the 250f going has been more than all our two strokes combined. KTM's have really been great bikes for us but I really enjoy my YZ250w1 have put one piston in it in three years. With the cost of getting into racing high enough as it is I think many folks who get there racer that cool 250F and find out the valves strech the rods get loose and it just keeps your wallet empty to run one hard are either giving up or switching to two strokes. Since virtually all the racing we do now has no two vs four stroke handicapping anymore it's been a boon to two strokes.

[rodgini]

bullshit, they have 23 models, and the only line that is even close to redundant is the XC line, they a motocross line, a offroad line, a dualsport line, and a in between line (XC). The sizes are specific to race classes, or big open class (500+)

yamaha has 17, honda has 16, and those two do not even offer real dualsport dirt bikes, and do not have big bores for sale

I would say it's exactly in line with the rest of the industry, and they offer bikes the big 4 dont even bother with, 2 strokes, and real tagged dirt bikes


dude it was a compliment to ktm. they make every size bike 2 and 4 stroke in offroad, mx, and dual sport versions. they have the most diverse off road line of any manufacturer and it is one of the keys to there success. you can get the flavor you want without doing any mods to the bike.

oh and since you seem to be a bit touchy about ktm. do you know that they are no longer made in austria? ktms are now made in india. hopefully the quality will stay up.

[rodgini]

There is always room for improvement, KTM manages to keep updating their 2 strokes every year and just did a major revision for 2011. The YZ250 can still use the new linkage, swing arm, clutch lever, etc from the 450F. There are still some things that can be added to this bike that will make it even better.

I just bought a 2010, so I hope they don't update it too soon!

i know. i just hope that they don't make them overly complicated like the new yz450. the beauty of the yz250 is the simplicity IMO.

[andrzej]

I think you will see a new redesigned yz 2-stroke from Yamaha in the next few years. The only question is what could they possibly do to make them any better?

Fuel injection on a 2-smoke! THAT's what would make 'em better.....more fuel efficient, emissions reductions and all that.

Read this whole thread: http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/future-of-two-strokes.html for lots of ideas on what could be done.

There's a TON that could be done to boost the technology and performance of 2-smokes. :busted:

I just hope that Yamaha sees the market potential and goes for it, thus putting a dent in the big Honda 4-stroke bias. :bonk:

[Crusty1]

? I dont get it, what does that mean? They have a pretty small product line compared to the big 4

You're joking, right?

KTM:

Minis
50 SX mini
50cc SX
65 sx
85 sx
105 sx
150 sx
250 SX
350 SXF
450 SXF

450 EXC
530 EXC
690 Enduro
950 Enduro

150 XC
250 XC
300 XC

200 XCW
250 XCW
300 XCW

450 XCW
530 XCW

Yamaha:

YZ85
YZ125
YZ250

YZ250F
YZ450F

WR250F
WR450F

KTM has 21 "racing" offroad bikes; Yamaha has 7. Do the math, looks like KTM has 3 times more choices than Yamaha. I don't count the "put put" bikes that Yamaha has like the TTR line. I've owned them but they're beginner bikes at best. KTM is smart enough to let the japs serve the masses of entry level riders.

Kawasaki is even narrower: No KX125 or KX250 anymore. At least not in the states. I'm not a die hard KTM guy. Right now the stable is 75% blue; 25% orange. But I think KTM is a force to be reckoned with. And eventually the big guys will realize just how many bikes see the trails and how many see the MX track on any given day. KTM figured this out a long time ago and is laughing :p:p all the way to the bank:banana:

[dogfish]

C'mon guys be realistic....Yamaha has more than 7 offroad bikes.

Personally I'm sick of brand slamming on TT. I can pit with hundreds of riders with different brands of bikes and I never hear the crap I hear on TT. Same with off road. We have a annual ride the brings together over 25 riders for trail rides in northern MI. and still never hear the banter. Too each his own according to preference. KTM, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all have contributed to 2 stroke and 4 stroke technology. Nobody owns the 2 stroke or 4 stroke crowd so why argue about it?

[MegaDeTH]

You're joking, right?
KTM has 21 "racing" offroad bikes; Yamaha has 7.
You can try to spin it all you want, but ktm bikes all fit a racing classes as I said, and yamaha has 16 offroad bikes, you also missed the dualsports from yamaha

yamaha does not even make a race bike for every class anymore, people are forced to switch brands if they want to race those classes

[arnego2]

Hi there
Don't get your hope up too high, injector systems will come and some kind of turbo mode could follow easily. You know the world screams for advanced technics unfortunately

regards
Arnego2

[Rusty93]

People are still buying 4 strokes especially 450's since people have fugured out they are a little more reliable. But Yamaha still sells every 250 smoker that they make. 2 strokes are definitely the biggest sellers for KTM. People slap the money down every year for 300's especially, at least in my area.

[Crusty1]

C'mon guys be realistic....Yamaha has more than 7 offroad bikes.

Personally I'm sick of brand slamming on TT. I can pit with hundreds of riders with different brands of bikes and I never hear the crap I hear on TT. Same with off road. We have a annual ride the brings together over 25 riders for trail rides in northern MI. and still never hear the banter. Too each his own according to preference. KTM, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Kawasaki all have contributed to 2 stroke and 4 stroke technology. Nobody owns the 2 stroke or 4 stroke crowd so why argue about it?

I'm not slamming anyone. But if you read what I said I'm not comparing offroad racing bikes to beginner bikes. So please, this is not about brands, it's about 2 strokes. And the major brands have been backing off from investing there R&D money in 2t and putting it disproportionately into the 4t market.

But I'm curious, if you really are counting just "real" offroad bikes. How many models does Yami have? Do you count the XT line? TTR line?

[Crusty1]

People are still buying 4 strokes especially 450's since people have fugured out they are a little more reliable. But Yamaha still sells every 250 smoker that they make. 2 strokes are definitely the biggest sellers for KTM. People slap the money down every year for 300's especially, at least in my area.

Curious. When did people figure out that the 450's are a little more reliable? I assume you're referring to later 450s are more reliable to earlier 450s. That would make sense.

[Zach164]

Curious. When did people figure out that the 450's are a little more reliable? I assume you're referring to later 450s are more reliable to earlier 450s. That would make sense.

They do, my buddy has a 08 YZ450F with about 180 hours and has never even needed to adjust the valves yet. I can see why people buy 450's, but 250F's are a lot of money to keep running.

[Dirtysnow]

They do, my buddy has a 08 YZ450F with about 180 hours and has never even needed to adjust the valves yet. I can see why people buy 450's, but 250F's are a lot of money to keep running.

Yup, low rpm's are the ticket to keeping the valvetrain happy.

I sold my 250f, which had nothing wrong with it, and picked up a 125. I put $1100 in my pocket on top of that and found the real "joy" in riding. I miss the thumper a litte because I like to change it up, but my wallet never looked back :thumbsup:

[mauricedorris]

Curious. When did people figure out that the 450's are a little more reliable? I assume you're referring to later 450s are more reliable to earlier 450s. That would make sense.

When did you get the idea that 2 strokes are more reliable than 450's?

the earlier bikes were air cooled (xr400/600's, dr350/650's, xt350/600's, etc...) and we all know that many of those are still running. They were and continue to be almost bulletproof.

its hard to buy a bike made in the past 15 years (2t or 4t) that wasn't reliable when it was taken care of. It doesn't mean that some of them don't break. I'm just saying that they are all good bikes if you take care of them properly.

[Crusty1]

[QUOTE=mauricedorris;9520344]When did you get the idea that 2 strokes are more reliable than 450's? quote

I'd like to reply to this but I'm running to the closet to put on my flame retard-ent suit.

[sdjclevland]

I will believe two strokes are making a come back when I start seeing more of them at dealerships brand new. I for sure see more people riding them but used ones.

And I personally like to call ktm the Harley davidson of dirt bikes. May not be as good as other bikes but everyone wants one, they look cool, and have all the style and fashion apparel to go with that people seem loyal to. Like Harley davidson.

[sdjclevland]

Oh yeah and cost more money like barleys lol

[Tepco]

Comming back to MX after around 15 years off. I raced 2ts and now own a DRZ400SM and a YZ250 2t. We know the DRZ is way detuned to make it last on the street which is the only reason i took a chance on a 4t.(and i had to own a motard)

I really wanted to try out a 4t but could only afford used, and unfortunately previous maintinance is always in question, so i couldnt afford to take the chance on one. I bought a yz because even if the maintinance history was not honestly explained to me i could afford to fix it.

A used 4t is just too much of a gamble.

There is a lot of improvements they can make to 2ts so i believe they will come back. :p

[ron_m]

We have become two stroke fans all over after dabbling in four stroke with CRF450 KX250F and CRF150RB cost to keep the 250f going has been more than all our two strokes combined. KTM's have really been great bikes for us but I really enjoy my YZ250w1 have put one piston in it in three years. With the cost of getting into racing high enough as it is I think many folks who get there racer that cool 250F and find out the valves strech the rods get loose and it just keeps your wallet empty to run one hard are either giving up or switching to two strokes. Since virtually all the racing we do now has no two vs four stroke handicapping anymore it's been a boon to two strokes.
What about the maintenance costs for your CRF150RB? Has that bike nickel and dimed you to death--or has it cost less to maintain than the KX250F?

[APBT]

yes people are going back to 2-strokes. there are various reasons for this. they are more fun to ride IMO and waaay cheaper and easier to maintain.

I agree that 2 strokes are MUCH more fun to ride, and are a bit easier to maintain. I'm not convinced that they are exponentially cheaper to own barring a catastrophic maintenance problem. You still have all of the routine maintenance items to perform: tire changes, chain/sprocket replacement, clutch replacement, bearings, cables, filter maintenance, brake pad replacement, etc., etc. just like a 4 stroke. The real savings occur in the event of a 4T engine catastrophe, but savings on routine, day to day maintenance are questionable IMO.

[RCannon]

Two vs 4 aside.....I dotn think Utah's economy was hurt as bad as some other states. I have hit all the shops through the major Utah cities this week, and its not good. Sport and MX bikes are just about over with. The small street bikes are well represented, but thats abotu it.

[Agr8day4mx]

I think there is more interest developing for the 2 stroke. I only joined TT a couple of moths ago and I swear that these types of threads are increasing even in the short time I've been on here. Could be just my imagination but still.....

There is still so much untapped potential left in the 2 stroke dirt bike. Direct injection, programmable fuel mapping, the motor is so bloody versatile you could tune it however you want. You want a tractor....switch to fuel curve "A" with Pipe "X" and FWW "Y"...........time to scream on the MX track????......OK switch to Pipe "Y" and fuel curve "B" and on and on. The possibilities have not even begun.

I kind of believe (and hope) that if and when DI hits the market it will bust open the flood gates for the 2 stroke.

[BRM]

You're joking, right?

KTM figured this out a long time ago and is laughing :p:p all the way to the bank:banana:

Don't know where you got you facts from but KTM nearly went under recently due to their forte into the X-Box car thingy. So I don't think they are laughing all the way to the bank.