[slo rider]

http://www.vholdr.com/node/50412

While not THE single factor, this is the kind of crap we can thank for another lost riding area. This used to be nice single track, but not anymore. :foul:

[sconeracing]

that was a nice SINGLE track trail, until someone decided they wanted up it:banghead::foul:

[mstennes]

Why are people so fricken stupid?

[motovita]

I maintain thats it's the people who voted for Patty Murray, Christine Gregoire, Jay Inslee and the like, or didn't vote at all, who got Reiter shut Down. People who never saw those trails and never will. They just want to make sure you can't use them because of their philosophical opposition of our sport.

[Hawker665]

I can't even tell where that is. What trail is that? So sad someone decided that they needed to go screw up even more trail before it got shutdown. Way to go jack asses.

[sdavies]

I've been screaming about this stuff for years. No one cared, noone tried. Sad is that even the ones who caused all the damage still think the have a right to do this and we all know there is no one ##### thing that can stop it. What I really don't get is that why are we grouped together with a group that just doesn't give a rip.

[SJMC_DON]

I can't even tell where that is. What trail is that? So sad someone decided that they needed to go screw up even more trail before it got shutdown. Way to go jack asses.

Thats just off the main line road before Deer Flats. The hill was converted from s/t years ago by quads then buggies... it's right next to the road and easy to understand why people would hit it once it was established.

What is apparent in the vid is that the tight left hander at the top which seemed to be a barrier to the buggies in the past has been successfully negotiated and now the trail on top is being converted.... congratulations:banghead:

[slo rider]

I can't even tell where that is. What trail is that? So sad someone decided that they needed to go screw up even more trail before it got shutdown. Way to go jack asses.

It looks like SJMC_DON gave a good description. I just know it as the rocky hill climb across the road. We rode it last weekend and it wasn't torn up.

I was of the mindset that we needed to work together with the 4x4 groups to keep what areas we have. But after seeing such clear disrespect and utter disregard for what is obviously not a 4x4 trail, I'm not so sure that we can share the same area.

[knightsofnee]

I'm not into the fourwheeling crowd anymore but it should be made clear that the drunken redneck crowd is responsible for this kind of thing and the respectable, established 4WD clubs would like to strangle these people as much as we would.

[sconeracing]

But we have to band together, the more we have against them the better it should be. The 4x4 clubs out there are good folks and they need us as much as we need them.

1 question to everyone out there are you a member of a club? if not look into it. thats 1 way to help our sport progress

I was of the mindset that we needed to work together with the 4x4 groups to keep what areas we have. But after seeing such clear disrespect and utter disregard for what is obviously not a 4x4 trail, I'm not so sure that we can share the same area.[/QUOTE]

[The Shocker]

I'm not into the fourwheeling crowd anymore but it should be made clear that the drunken redneck crowd is responsible for this kind of thing and the respectable, established 4WD clubs would like to strangle these people as much as we would.

+1 It is the jackasses that think they have the right to go whereever they can physically make it. I disagree with the statement that it is obviously not a 4X4 trail. I was there yesterday and rode up this while a pretty stock jeep was most of the way up, I got around him and rode the same path you did and from the road it looks like a 4X4 trail. This only looks that way from being heavily used as such though. :foul: The other problem is that from the other direction you can see it comes off that other road and it's pretty much widened though there as well.

I found an interesting trail that is one that had the orange course markers from a race, It was apparent to me that it was a bike trail turned into a 4X4 trail. It had rutted puddles about truck tire width apart. Then I saw this.... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4399207&l=a377eca5fa&id=559860618

The rest of the trail was much the same of rutted out trail filled with muddy water and other tracks going around causing a second muddy water rut.

The 4X4 community does not like the negative attention brought by the idiots who go out and destroy trails just to say they could. We are having a hard time coming up with a way to minimize the damage caused. Narrower rigs and smaller tires don't seem to matter because it's the guys who don't know how to drive that are the problem. I came across a Jeep Cherokee that was coming up the chutes below the sandhill under the powerlines on my way out yesterday. It was about to roll over down another side chute that they dropped into. There were 2 toyota pickups trying to pull it out and they had about 6 highschool kids sitting in the bed where if the strap broke they could all be dead. I took the time to stop them from a possibly devastating life decision and helped them to get out properly and safely. I could have just rode my bike past them and left them to their stupidity but if we don't teach proper trail etiquette and safety where are we headed.

My hopes for Reiter's future is being part of the solution and not the problem. I will help to make sure trails are built and blocked so the intended vehicles are the ones using it. With official trails made we will actually have a map that we can show people where trails are and they can see which they should not be at. This is what has caused the *most* destruction up there is people not knowing what they are doing or where they are going.

[slo rider]

I disagree with the statement that it is obviously not a 4X4 trail. I was there yesterday and rode up this while a pretty stock jeep was most of the way up, I got around him and rode the same path you did and from the road it looks like a 4X4 trail. This only looks that way from being heavily used as such though. [/FONT]

Exactly. Until some volunteer work is put in to restore the entrance to this trail, it will now be known as a 4x4 trail and will continue to see this kind of use. I wouldn't be surprised to see it turn into what a lot of the lower area looks like. But go back 6-12 months and it was obviously a bike trail.

[ridemor]

just like whats going on at the rock candy entrance at capitol.i snapped this picture sat right after a guy on a quad told me about it a ways up the trail.two full size trucks drove around the eco blocks thru a blackberry bush to get in there.i asked the quad rider if he called and reported it and he said no.this was on the trail reroute just as you hit the trail leaving the rock candy staging area.of course they were gone by the time we got there.i hate ridn with my gogles steamed up
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Vf2HEeb72ew/Su91ARJdsEI/AAAAAAAAF4w/woD78kiFvP4/s640/HPIM0494.JPG

15 feet away a nice new bridge to nowhere
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Vf2HEeb72ew/Su90_nfcznI/AAAAAAAAF4s/s_6VgnpHGCc/s640/HPIM0493.JPG

[dustyxcw]

The 4x4s have ruined reiter the buggies and samurais have made it even worse look at what the warm up trail looks like they would go down the whole cable trail through the stream crosssing if they were left alone the bikes need to band together to. Keep the 4x4s. To there own place away from our trails.

[Nick777]

Is it officially closed down for good? I havnt had a chance to get up there up.

[The Shocker]

Exactly. Until some volunteer work is put in to restore the entrance to this trail, it will now be known as a 4x4 trail and will continue to see this kind of use. I wouldn't be surprised to see it turn into what a lot of the lower area looks like. But go back 6-12 months and it was obviously a bike trail.


Exactly why we should be working WITH the 4X4 clubs who are trying to do what is right by all of us. If we get involved WITH them then they hear our issues with these trails and help to keep them as such. Otherwise it is "us" and "them" and neither could give a fawk about the others trails except trying to say who does more damage. We need more communication between the groups as to what is happening up there. I hope that RTW can be that common voice, but there are only a few of us who have both bikes and 4X's to try to speak for all of you. The more of us that get involved the better understanding we can have of each other.

[The Shocker]

I hope to see everyone at this meeting....


Reiter Foothills Forest Recreation Plan — Public Review Meeting
6:30 to 8 p.m.
November 18
Monroe High School
The Commons
17001 Tester Rd
Monroe, Washington 98272
Directions (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Monroe+High+School,+17001+Tester+Rd,+Monroe,+Was hington+98272&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.854268,51.855469&ie=UTF8&hq=Monroe+High+School,&hnear=17001+Tester+Rd,+Monroe,+WA+98272&ll=47.844069,-122.008367&spn=0.011607,0.02532&z=15)
The Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is holding a public meeting to let people know about the draft Reiter Foothills Forest Recreation Plan and how they can comment on it. DNR is providing this public comment opportunity in conjunction with the official State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) process. The public comment period ends 5 p.m., December 4.
A draft of the plan will be available for downloading on November 10.

[BullTaco]

Slo,

Thanks for the video. Unfortunately, as long as 4 x 4's and quads have the mindset that they "deserve" to go anywhere they can defeat the terrain/gates/barriers/signs/etc. there will always be this kind of damage and all off-roaders will continue to be in the deep caca because of it.

Finally, that whole argument about "it's just a couple of asshats making us all look bad" is not working anymore. This forum has alot of threads about out-of-bounds riding at Walker, Reiter, and Capitol.

BullTaco

[Helmet_Hair]

Slo,

Thanks for the video. Unfortunately, as long as 4 x 4's and quads have the mindset that they "deserve" to go anywhere they can defeat the terrain/gates/barriers/signs/etc. there will always be this kind of damage and all off-roaders will continue to be in the deep caca because of it.

Finally, that whole argument about "it's just a couple of asshats making us all look bad" is not working anymore. This forum has alot of threads about out-of-bounds riding at Walker, Reiter, and Capitol.

BullTaco

Maybe I'm off here, but it seems like the times I've been out to Tahuya everyone's seemed to stay to their own designated spots. There's a good mixture of trails there that seem to keep people (relatively) satisfied. Granted, bikes and quads are more represented out there. Could Reiter be turned into something more closely representing how Tahuya works, or is the demographics just "different" up at Reiter?

[sdavies]

Maybe I'm off here, but it seems like the times I've been out to Tahuya everyone's seemed to stay to their own designated spots. There's a good mixture of trails there that seem to keep people (relatively) satisfied. Granted, bikes and quads are more represented out there. Could Reiter be turned into something more closely representing how Tahuya works, or is the demographics just "different" up at Reiter?
Not without the max inforcement. Not to mention that the area is sososososo small. The mentality of the people isn't going to change. Seperation of the groups is the best thing. There are areas that could handle s/t with minimal impact, just as there are areas that could not change much if 4x4 were using it. we must help sherch out and somehow fix this mess,in a different way. You can't change the smarts of so but maybe you can redirrect them.

[Crashfab]

This is exactly why we need to work together more than ever folks.

As reiter sat there were "NO" rules. How do you enforce something apon somebody when its technicaly " not ilegal" just imoral. Then you have to throw the factor of the uneducated type--heck I see that with every group be it quads and bikes.

But I do agree with your guys concerns and I understand your frustration.

As we sit now we will have "LEGAL" trails that we will be able to work with maintaining as whatever type of trail it is..

Throwing rocks back and forth will get us noplace..

[tod701]

How do you enforce something apon somebody when its technicaly " not ilegal" just imoral.

I've got to disagree.

Trashing a trail is a misdemeanor persuant to WAC 332-52-110.

[sconeracing]

This is exactly why we need to work together more than ever folks.

As reiter sat there were "NO" rules. How do you enforce something apon somebody when its technicaly " not ilegal" just imoral. Then you have to throw the factor of the uneducated type--heck I see that with every group be it quads and bikes.

But I do agree with your guys concerns and I understand your frustration.

As we sit now we will have "LEGAL" trails that we will be able to work with maintaining as whatever type of trail it is..

Throwing rocks back and forth will get us noplace..

There are bad apples in every group. We need to group together before it is ALL gone

[Crashfab]

I've got to disagree.

Trashing a trail is a misdemeanor persuant to WAC 332-52-110.

That WAC pertains to damaging state managed land and not directly related to "trails" But I get what your saying tod.

But I should elaborate on my origional statement. My reference was to users who are uneducated. I have talked with quite a few over the years and thats the response you always get--"its not an ORV area its a free for all"..

[Crashfab]

There are bad apples in every group. We need to group together before it is ALL gone

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!! On both statements :thumbsup:

[tod701]

That WAC pertains to damaging state managed land and not directly related to "trails" But I get what your saying tod.

Actually it does directly apply to trails.

See WAC 332-52-110(1)(b)

linky:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52-110

[Crashfab]

Actually it does directly apply to trails.

See WAC 332-52-110(1)(b)

linky:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=332-52-110

The term authorized use is in there. Reiter has never had Authorized use. Now on a legal trail I could see that being used since a legal trial would also be "authorized".

[Crashfab]

Oh and for the record--I am all for enforcement. Folks who don't want to listen to rules--should pay the price for it....

[trailwhale]

The term authorized use is in there. Reiter has never had Authorized use. Now on a legal trail I could see that being used since a legal trial would also be "authorized".


Authorized use or not "damage" is citeable via this statue in sub-section "a"
(a) Absent normal wear and tear from an authorized use, a person shall not damage, remove, or destroy department-managed resources, or property to include but not be limited to locks, gates, traffic barriers, earthen berms, notices, signs, markers, facilities, or equipment.

[tod701]

The term authorized use is in there. Reiter has never had Authorized use. Now on a legal trail I could see that being used since a legal trial would also be "authorized".


(b) Absent normal wear and tear from an authorized use, a person shall not damage a trail or road, including boardwalks, bridges, water bars, or any other related improvements.

This allows normal wear and tear from an authorized use and prohibits otherwise damaging a trail.

FYI - the wear and tear language was added at my specific request when the statute was revised last year.