[carrzysafc]

To cut a long story short a local dealer told me that semi synthetic oil is better than fully synthetic for my Yamaha wr450f 2007. I have always used fully synthetic before and had no problems. Any of you guys know the difference??
Cheers.

[Gibbs450x]

i have always used semi or dino for break in and then full synthetic afterwords. i have been told that semi or dino oil helps things seat in a little better than full but then full protects better after everything has worn in properly. not sure how true this is but it has worked well for me.

[reconranger]

Semi will be cheaper, but "better"...no!

Semi is a mixture of petroleum oil and synthetic. The one and only advantage that petroleum oil has is that it has very small molecules that contribute to its "lubricity" (small molecules fit into little pits on the metal surface more easily). Trouble is, when things get hot, these little molecules are the first thing to burn up and turn to sludge!

One school of thought says that you should be changing your oil very frequently anyway, so the petroleum part of the semi oil doesn't really have time to deteriorate significantly...so you save a little money. For me, I run the best ester based synthetic I can find (Redline, Maxima, Motul), and still change it as frequently as necessary.

Do you know there are 3 different types of synthetic...and they are each very different? If your synthetic (or the synthetic part of your blend) isn't ester, you aren't getting the best!

[reconranger]

i have always used semi or dino for break in and then full synthetic afterwords. i have been told that semi or dino oil helps things seat in a little better than full but then full protects better after everything has worn in properly. not sure how true this is but it has worked well for me.

Conventional wisdom says to run pure petroleum during break-in, then you can switch to semi or full synth after that. I do notce that Honda's HP4 (a petroleum/synth blend), says it is ok for break-in on the bottle.

[Slinkyman16]

good oil is clean oil.. it really dosnt matter what u use as long as you keep it clean.. since the oil on our yamis are shared with the gearbox and clutch, it will become contaminated way before oil is broken down..

with that said.. i only run amsoil in my bike.. look at greyracers oil breakdown for the results.. you can serach it in the yz400/426/450 fourm

[jbusa8]

I use the Amsoil full syn. motorcycle oil and it works great. We bought 2 cases of it for all the bikes.

[carrzysafc]

I used to use fully sytnetic syntec 4 10w40. The dealer advised to use semi sythetic so i will try yamalube 10w40. I always chage my oil every couple of rides anyway so i hope i have no problems. Cheers.

[reconranger]

I used to use fully sytnetic syntec 4 10w40. The dealer advised to use semi sythetic so i will try yamalube 10w40. I always chage my oil every couple of rides anyway so i hope i have no problems. Cheers.


Ah, the wise and all knowing dealer......

Funny, Yamalube synthetic blend, doesn't come in 10W40! http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/yamalube.aspx

What bothers me about Yamalube, is that none of their literature says that their oils are API SG. SG insures you that you are at least getting a descent amount of anti-wear additives. The reason this is an issue, is that lots of street bikes now have cat converters, and the anti-wear additives may have gotten downgraded because they poison cat converters...not a good thing! There are better oils out there than Yamalube anyway, so I would look elsewhere.....

[reconranger]

OK, I now see you are in England, and Yamalube may market different oil over there....so there might be a 10W40 blend (????).

[shrubitup]

Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............

I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:

The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.

[CBus660R]

Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............

I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:

The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.

The theory on why energy conserving car oil is bad for wet clutches is that it ruins the fiber plates in your clutch. It has nothing to do with missed shifts or metal on your magnetic drain plug.

As to Shell Rotella, it may be inexpensive, but it is a very good oil.

[reconranger]

Here comes a bonk or bad gas for me .............

I use energy conserving car oil 10w-40 in my wet clutch on my smoker. I change it every four rides and there's no problems, missed shifts, or metal on my magnetic drain plug. I literally found two cases sitting in my Mom's garage that dated back to the early 90's. Not an issue provided you change it fairly frequently.:bonk:

A little reading on the subject: http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm

If the oil dates to the early 90's, that was before the government stepped in and decided that we all needed reduces levels of zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP, an anti-wear additive) in our car oils! To replace the ZDDP, they dumped in a bunch of friction modifiers instead, that may make a wet clutch slip.

So, you lucked out finding oil that is that old!!! But, I would also guess it is dumb luck.....better sell it on e-bay!

[reconranger]

As to Shell Rotella, it may be inexpensive, but it is a very good oil.

Again, the government has stepped in recently and decided that diesel oils also need reduced levels of ZDDP....so diesel oils have now been reformulated, just like car oils were in the early 90's!

The old Rotella had descent ZDDP levels, but don't count on that today....

[dmoney1074]

The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.

Rotella is not a "cheapie" oil... it may be inexpensive, but has a hell of an additive package. Quaker state is cheapie!!! ;)

[dmoney1074]

The Rekluse clutch I have even specifies to use cheapie Shell Rotella 15W-40.

Rotella is not a "cheapie" oil... it may be inexpensive, but has a hell of an additive package. Quaker state is cheapie!!! ;)

EDIT

As for reconranger... :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

[shrubitup]

A little reading on the subject: http://www.thumperfaq.com/oil.htm


Nice article but it doesn't pertain to a two stroke IMO. I run a two stroke and put the car oil in for the transmission/clutch only. I may have erred when I said wet clutch but I meant separate lubrication for the clutch and then lubrication for the crank coming from my pre mix oil. Clutch and crank aren't together on a smoker.:applause:

IMO Rotella is cheapie based on cost only. I agree that it is a great oil to use.

[reconranger]

Nice article but it doesn't pertain to a two stroke IMO. I run a two stroke and put the car oil in for the transmission/clutch only. I may have erred when I said wet clutch but I meant separate lubrication for the clutch and then lubrication for the crank coming from my pre mix oil. Clutch and crank aren't together on a smoker.:applause:


Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.

[shrubitup]

Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.
It appeared the article mentioned that for the traditional thumper the friction modifiers were a problem. It didn't really state that using it solely in a clutch was a problem.

[dmoney1074]

Where you been? There are thousands of Honda 450/250/150's, TRX450R's, and now KTM 4-strokes out there that have the engine and transmission oils seperated.....just like a 2-stroke. You missed that in the article??? There isn't any difference between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke tranny, although the majority of 4-strokes (unfortunately) do share the same oil between the engine and trans.

DUDE... Why are you so passionate about arguing about oil. You are always arguing in these oil threads, it gets annoying. Makes me think you are either a chemical engineer, or you work for amsoil.

Seriously, run what you like, and let people run what they like... DONE :excuseme:

[carrzysafc]

OK, I now see you are in England, and Yamalube may market different oil over there....so there might be a 10W40 blend (????).

Yeah, i am from across the pond! When i change my oil next i will try the Yamalube and post the results.
Cheers for all the great info!

[reconranger]

DUDE... Why are you so passionate about arguing about oil. You are always arguing in these oil threads, it gets annoying. Makes me think you are either a chemical engineer, or you work for amsoil.

Seriously, run what you like, and let people run what they like... DONE :excuseme:

I am a (bio)chemist (medical research), and a few years ago I realized that I knew nothing about oil! I did a lot of study on the subject, and now I realize how little everyone knows this subject, and just how much myth and totally outdated info there is out there!

Plus, oil technology is changing every day! If you follow the patent filings, there are new synthetic friction modifiers being developed, that will not make a wet clutch slip...we can have the best of both worlds, if we are willing to embrace the technology!

The whole motorcycle lubrication environment is undergoing a complete change...and for the most part everyone is totally oblivious! There are new products out there like Redline, Maxima Ultra, and Maxima 530MX, that are highly friction modified, yet wet clutch safe....and you will see an increase in preformance running these oils! Oil is now a performance enhancing product, not just lubrication!

Everybody imagines they are so technologically up to date and hip, yet why are they willing to be saddled with a last generation and ignorant hillbillie mentality about oil??? You wouldn't want to hit the track on the same motorcycle that your grandfather rode would you, so why in the world is everybody so happy to run the same archaic oil that grandpa ran???

Just for the record, AMSOIL is PAO based, and second best behind the ester based synthetics....and Rotella comes in a distant third! How many of you show up to a race deliberately intending to only come in second or third???

[shrubitup]

OK. Not racing so it doesn't matter what place I come in at. Should I embrace the "current" technology and spend oodles on the first rate ester based technology? I ride once a month you know.

I guess you're gonna tell me to run that ester based pre mix too at 60:1 in a bike designed for 30:1?? I run 32:1 and will not change as more oil is more power in a smoker all the way down to ~18:1 in a smoker.

[dmoney1074]

How many of you show up to a race deliberately intending to only come in second or third???

I dont race... nor will I ever. So :excuseme: about overpriced "performance" oil.

[reconranger]

I dont race... nor will I ever. So :excuseme: about overpriced "performance" oil.

Thing is, the sophisticated chemistry of that "performance" oil will also protect your engine, better than the old tech oil (formulated to meet a price point...so they have to leave lots of great things out!) you may choose to run.

Beside friction modifiers, there are new developments in anti-wear additives as well (like organosulfur-phosphorous compounds)....that you won't be getting in SpiffyLube oil either!

Even non-racer recreational riders spend big bucks on performance enhancing mods. Now, anyone can get performance enhancement (and superior protection), from a bottle.....

And, with the price of gas going through the roof, we should see improvements in friction modifiers for car oils (ILSAC GF-5 car oil standards....now put off until 2010).

[dmoney1074]

I dont use spiffy lube... only ROTELLA for me! All my bikes use it: wr426 did... not a single problem. My zx-9r has only seen rotella its whole life ~40K miles, not a single problem. My yz250 uses in the gear box... no problems so far. My GF's ttr125 uses it... not a single problem. See where this is going? Thats all the "scientific" proof I need right there. I am a recreational rider though, not a racer.
And I dont spend unnecessary money on performance mods like other guys do. I only mod to change the feel of my bikes and make them more ridable. My yz250 has more than enough power to satisfy my needs. I really dont need to add any more. Maybe your trx needs some more balls though... i dont know???? JK :)