new2blue
10-22-2002, 03:44 PM
What are the opinions/long term evaluations of the users of EFM or Revloc clutches.
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efm/revloc clutch |
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SUnruh
10-22-2002, 04:03 PM
nobody has had one long enough to know.
my efm has 2 practices and 1 harescramble on it.
so far, LOVE IT!
my efm has 2 practices and 1 harescramble on it.
so far, LOVE IT!
ksmike
10-22-2002, 04:14 PM
Steve,
Have you found any downside to the EFM clutch yet?
Mike 01WR250F
Have you found any downside to the EFM clutch yet?
Mike 01WR250F
SUnruh
10-22-2002, 04:24 PM
yes, one.
NOT HAVING IT LAST YEAR!!!!
ya can't bump start the bike, but i never tried it in a harescramble either.
NOT HAVING IT LAST YEAR!!!!
ya can't bump start the bike, but i never tried it in a harescramble either.
mikeolichney
10-23-2002, 07:54 AM
I am with SUnruh. I liked the EFM on my 250F so much I bought a Revloc for my CRF450. I am in the process of doing a shootout between the two with some of my friends. Will start a new post soon after we have some more time on them both.
Both are awesome products. The Revloc does have some advantages to justify the extra cost. The more technical the terrain, the more the clutch shines. The better a rider you are, the less you need one of these clutches. I am a 1st year B rider and find it well worth it.
Both are awesome products. The Revloc does have some advantages to justify the extra cost. The more technical the terrain, the more the clutch shines. The better a rider you are, the less you need one of these clutches. I am a 1st year B rider and find it well worth it.
SUnruh
10-23-2002, 09:14 AM
mike,
ya gotta tell me what on the revloc is worth $345 MORE?
i'm curious.
do you get a 7075T6 billet basket with the revloc like you do the efm?
do you get the ability to put your old pressure plate back on and use clutch the normal way?
do you get to use all of the steel and fiber plates that come stock?
i am real curious.
ya gotta tell me what on the revloc is worth $345 MORE?
i'm curious.
do you get a 7075T6 billet basket with the revloc like you do the efm?
do you get the ability to put your old pressure plate back on and use clutch the normal way?
do you get to use all of the steel and fiber plates that come stock?
i am real curious.
mikeolichney
10-23-2002, 10:45 AM
Well, I realize that this isn't apples to apples, because the Revloc is on a CRF 450 and the EFM is on a WR250F. SUnruh has already detailed the advantages of the EFM, most notably the $345 and the lack of a core swap. But here are the Revloc advantages, from what I can tell in comparing the two bikes installation and a few rides:
1. The Revloc has a much lower lever effort to pull in the clutch, when set up to manufacturers recommendations.
2. The Revloc engages very smoothly while the EFM is grabby. Maybe something is a little off with my EFM, but the difference is noticeable, especially when using the clutch lever.
3. The Revloc is a breeze to install. The EFM is not; there is drilling, grinding, and a little cussing. The EFM instructions are not complete.
4. The Revloc does not need a thick Lexan spacer like the EFM, it looks stock and the side case does not bulge out like the EFM.
5. The Revloc comes with a new set of clutch plates.
If the Revloc worth $345 more? I am not sure (I bought my Revloc cheap used). If they were the same price I would take the Revloc, from what I have seen so far. But I plan on alot of testing, with opinions from my friends with different skill levels. I will post our findings in the next few weeks.
1. The Revloc has a much lower lever effort to pull in the clutch, when set up to manufacturers recommendations.
2. The Revloc engages very smoothly while the EFM is grabby. Maybe something is a little off with my EFM, but the difference is noticeable, especially when using the clutch lever.
3. The Revloc is a breeze to install. The EFM is not; there is drilling, grinding, and a little cussing. The EFM instructions are not complete.
4. The Revloc does not need a thick Lexan spacer like the EFM, it looks stock and the side case does not bulge out like the EFM.
5. The Revloc comes with a new set of clutch plates.
If the Revloc worth $345 more? I am not sure (I bought my Revloc cheap used). If they were the same price I would take the Revloc, from what I have seen so far. But I plan on alot of testing, with opinions from my friends with different skill levels. I will post our findings in the next few weeks.
Bombhammer
10-23-2002, 01:07 PM
I've been field testing the EFM on my '03 CRF for around 40 hrs now, and it has performed flawlessly. I also did a personal comparison test between the Revloc and the EFM (only for a day) and I found the EFM superior for my riding style (and pocketbook). The Revloc tends to either be "on" or "off" and didn't smoothly transition up to midrange rpm's like the EFM did. It felt like the EFM's smoother transition helped during slippery hill climbs and transversing rooty, rocky terrain. I also found that the EFM performed better for me through the corners. The revloc was on a friend's CRF, so I can't be certain that it was adjusted correctly, but I'll stick with the EFM.
JR
JR
SUnruh
10-23-2002, 01:22 PM
jr,
how many springs do you have installed on the EFM?
it is just the stock ones or did you add any?
good info and point of view.
i really don't think a comparison of a revloc on a crf to a efm on a yzf is fair. apples to oranges really.
how many springs do you have installed on the EFM?
it is just the stock ones or did you add any?
good info and point of view.
i really don't think a comparison of a revloc on a crf to a efm on a yzf is fair. apples to oranges really.
Hawaii-Rider
10-23-2002, 03:22 PM
SUnruh wrote:
ya can't bump start the bike, but i never tried it in a harescramble either.
i ride a blue one
Bump Start?????
We dont need no STINKIN bump start!
Just push that 'happy' button ! :D
Agree with SUnruh: EFM unit is an awesome add on!...No issues with mine other than not being lazy with it and forcing yourself to shift gears when you should!
HR
:cool:
ya can't bump start the bike, but i never tried it in a harescramble either.
i ride a blue one
Bump Start?????
We dont need no STINKIN bump start!
Just push that 'happy' button ! :D
Agree with SUnruh: EFM unit is an awesome add on!...No issues with mine other than not being lazy with it and forcing yourself to shift gears when you should!
HR
:cool:
Bombhammer
10-23-2002, 03:40 PM
SUnruh
I ended up with 2 springs X 6 = 12 total
Any less and I ended up with too much slip.
JR
I ended up with 2 springs X 6 = 12 total
Any less and I ended up with too much slip.
JR
Junior_Vet
10-23-2002, 07:03 PM
Almost sounds like cheating !
Good info though....
Good info though....
revlocman
10-24-2002, 05:00 AM
First off, I am not an unbiased observer. I work for the company that manufactures the Revloc clutch. I've been following the discussion concerning the EFM vs. the Revloc and have a few questions. Is it true that you have to install a Lexan spacer between the engine case and the clutch cover? If so, doesn't this then require the brake lever, foot peg, and master cylinder to also be spaced out?
Does the clutch come with hardware necessary to do this? On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover? Is this even possible on some bikes? How do you seal this spacer? Why do you need a drill and grinder for installation? Do you have to 'adjust' the clutch as the plates wear? If so, how do you know when the plates are worn enough to require adjustment? Does the clutch just slip excessively when adjustment is necessary? Just a few questions. Thanks.
Does the clutch come with hardware necessary to do this? On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover? Is this even possible on some bikes? How do you seal this spacer? Why do you need a drill and grinder for installation? Do you have to 'adjust' the clutch as the plates wear? If so, how do you know when the plates are worn enough to require adjustment? Does the clutch just slip excessively when adjustment is necessary? Just a few questions. Thanks.
YZ250F_Rider
10-24-2002, 05:07 AM
Well at least he didnt start out by saying physics books are like a bowl of poopy soup. :D
flwr250f
10-24-2002, 05:29 AM
For those of you that have the clutch... How much do you still routinely rely on the manual override. Would it be a bad idea to remove the clutch lever and replace it with a rear brake? By the way, who knows how or where someone can get a rear brake fit for a hand brake? Do they exist? Is it possible. Could a hydraulic clutch/perch be covereted to a activate the rear caliper on a WR/YZ. Anyone thought through this?
SUnruh
10-24-2002, 05:58 AM
Is it true that you have to install a Lexan spacer between the engine case and the clutch cover? If so, doesn't this then require the brake lever, foot peg, and master cylinder to also be spaced out?
yes, on the lexan spacer.
no, on needing to space stuff out. on the 250F the spacer is only 3/8" thick. you don't even notice it is there.
it comes with all the hardware (ie extra long bolts) to install the spacer. nothing else is affected.
On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover? Is this even possible on some bikes? How do you seal this spacer? Why do you need a drill and grinder for installation? Do you have to 'adjust' the clutch as the plates wear? If so, how do you know when the plates are worn enough to require adjustment? Does the clutch just slip excessively when adjustment is necessary?
no idea on other bikes. those of us in the 250F forum usually own a 250F. i could only speculate and have NO idea about any other bike.
the spacer seals with a stock gasket or silicon. your choice. it don't leak.
no idea why a person needs a drill. the grinder is to remove the 3 rivet heads. a hammer and punch are then needed to pound the collars off the rivets.
i have no idea on clutch wear yet. i don't see how that will be a factor. actually, i don't even have an idea as to how you would know they are completely worn out. probably when it doesn't lockup anymore. my only guess.
yes, on the lexan spacer.
no, on needing to space stuff out. on the 250F the spacer is only 3/8" thick. you don't even notice it is there.
it comes with all the hardware (ie extra long bolts) to install the spacer. nothing else is affected.
On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover? Is this even possible on some bikes? How do you seal this spacer? Why do you need a drill and grinder for installation? Do you have to 'adjust' the clutch as the plates wear? If so, how do you know when the plates are worn enough to require adjustment? Does the clutch just slip excessively when adjustment is necessary?
no idea on other bikes. those of us in the 250F forum usually own a 250F. i could only speculate and have NO idea about any other bike.
the spacer seals with a stock gasket or silicon. your choice. it don't leak.
no idea why a person needs a drill. the grinder is to remove the 3 rivet heads. a hammer and punch are then needed to pound the collars off the rivets.
i have no idea on clutch wear yet. i don't see how that will be a factor. actually, i don't even have an idea as to how you would know they are completely worn out. probably when it doesn't lockup anymore. my only guess.
SUnruh
10-24-2002, 06:02 AM
How much do you still routinely rely on the manual override. Would it be a bad idea to remove the clutch lever and replace it with a rear brake?
not very much at all. in my last race i used it about 5 times total. 4 out of habit. once to find neutral (habit) because there was a log jam of bikes waiting for a downed rider to clear out of the way of a drop into a creek.
no, i wouldn't put the rear brake on the left bar. an old habit might have you grab it by mistake and cause an accident. i dunno. i certainly won't put a rear brake on my bars.
not very much at all. in my last race i used it about 5 times total. 4 out of habit. once to find neutral (habit) because there was a log jam of bikes waiting for a downed rider to clear out of the way of a drop into a creek.
no, i wouldn't put the rear brake on the left bar. an old habit might have you grab it by mistake and cause an accident. i dunno. i certainly won't put a rear brake on my bars.
flwr250f
10-24-2002, 06:24 AM
I understand the possibliliy of grabbing a hand full of brake thinking it might ne a clutch. But I have some nerve damage in my right foot/ankle which can make it a little sluggish and clumsy. The hand brake may be a good option for me. I am interested in the engineering discussion of how it could be done. I had read early in the REVLOC discussion that some folks were considering a rear hand brake. I am looking for maybe a "how to" or a viable plan from some of you guys that have done a lot of mods over the years.
SUnruh
10-24-2002, 06:31 AM
i don't think it would be hard to do at all on an 01 or 02 bike.
take a LONG cable and route it to the end of the brake pedal. heli-arc a tab on the end (where the current pin goes through) to accept the barrel from the cable. weld a tab onto the back of the frame by the swing arm pivot to secure the cable. done! the cable would pull the back of the pedal up (the toe portion down) and cost maybe $40 (mostly for the cable).
take a LONG cable and route it to the end of the brake pedal. heli-arc a tab on the end (where the current pin goes through) to accept the barrel from the cable. weld a tab onto the back of the frame by the swing arm pivot to secure the cable. done! the cable would pull the back of the pedal up (the toe portion down) and cost maybe $40 (mostly for the cable).
Bombhammer
10-24-2002, 07:29 AM
Is it true that you have to install a Lexan spacer between the engine case and the clutch cover? If so, doesn't this then require the brake lever, foot peg, and master cylinder to also be spaced out?
A 3/8" spacer is required for the CRF as well, because EFM wants to keep the stock clutch as the manufacturer intended. This allows you to switch back to your normal clutch if you wish. Yes, you do have to slightly adjust the brake pedal on the CRF but the upside is that the spacer allows for increased oil capacity (on the tranny side). No foot peg adjustments or master cylinder adjustments needed.
On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover?
On bikes like the KTM, instead of using thinner clutch plates like revloc, the EFM removes one steel plate and everything fits without a spacer. No problems.
JR
A 3/8" spacer is required for the CRF as well, because EFM wants to keep the stock clutch as the manufacturer intended. This allows you to switch back to your normal clutch if you wish. Yes, you do have to slightly adjust the brake pedal on the CRF but the upside is that the spacer allows for increased oil capacity (on the tranny side). No foot peg adjustments or master cylinder adjustments needed.
On bikes where there is no separate 'clutch' cover but rather an entire engine side cover, do you have to space out the entire side cover?
On bikes like the KTM, instead of using thinner clutch plates like revloc, the EFM removes one steel plate and everything fits without a spacer. No problems.
JR
mikeolichney
10-24-2002, 08:16 AM
Sunruh, I don't like taking a hammer to anything mechanical so I drilled the rivets off during EFM installation. You can substitute "hammer and punch" for "drill". The fact remains (even with your good advice on the EFM) the Revloc was a piece of cake to install and the EFM was a pain. (Not $345 worth of pain though). And plain and simple, the spacer is there and I consider it a small downside for the EFM. This talk about keeping the all the clutch plates as designed is only valid if it ends up being a problem on the Revloc. So far, I have not seen any indication of this, on mine or on this forum.
The guy at Revloc, who knows the races I am doing, recommended a completely different setup. Far fewer ball bearings and springs. Set up this way, the Revloc is far smoother than the EFM. The EFM is very grabby-maybe something is off with mine. Does yours engage smoothly without any pulsing?
I have both and I am not biased. I have not met anybody who works for either company. Since I bought the Revloc used, I paid the same $ for both. I can only compare the installation and action of them on different bikes-hey, I am not a magazine and I had to pay for these things. Take it for what its worth.
Revloc makes a kit for left hand rear brake activation, its $169, I got it for my CRF. I almost never use the clutch (why these devices have a huge fan in me). I ride mtn bikes far more often than I dirt bike, so I am used to handbrakes. When I started riding dirt bikes 5 years ago I switched my mountain bike handbrakes to match a dirt bike (bicycles stock have the front brake on the left and the rear on the right).
The guy at Revloc, who knows the races I am doing, recommended a completely different setup. Far fewer ball bearings and springs. Set up this way, the Revloc is far smoother than the EFM. The EFM is very grabby-maybe something is off with mine. Does yours engage smoothly without any pulsing?
I have both and I am not biased. I have not met anybody who works for either company. Since I bought the Revloc used, I paid the same $ for both. I can only compare the installation and action of them on different bikes-hey, I am not a magazine and I had to pay for these things. Take it for what its worth.
Revloc makes a kit for left hand rear brake activation, its $169, I got it for my CRF. I almost never use the clutch (why these devices have a huge fan in me). I ride mtn bikes far more often than I dirt bike, so I am used to handbrakes. When I started riding dirt bikes 5 years ago I switched my mountain bike handbrakes to match a dirt bike (bicycles stock have the front brake on the left and the rear on the right).
revlocman
10-24-2002, 08:28 AM
You can certainly do as SUnrah advises and use a cable system. Revloc has made this type system for some time now. Unfortunately not for your particular bike. Just today we have made prototype hydraulically actuated rear brakes that are activated by your clutch master cylinder (lever) or by a new master cylinder if your bike comes with a cable lever. The system retains the use of the foot brake also. If you don't care about keeping the foot brake simply run a hose from a brake master cylinder (Magura, etc.) to the rear caliper.
SUnruh
10-24-2002, 08:40 AM
The EFM is very grabby-maybe something is off with mine. Does yours engage smoothly without any pulsing?
mine is smooth. no pulsing. so something must be off on yours. do you have the stock amount of springs? i added more springs (like taking balls out of the revloc) and that enables you to change the lockup point. i have had mine chatter, but that was from a 3rd gear start from stopped and a 2nd gear start on a hill. the chatter stopped as soon as i twisted the throttle more.
whether it is the Z-Start, the EFM or the Revloc, all of these new "auto clutches" get the same result. they just do it differently. just like Ford, Dodge and Chevy all build trucks. all are trucks, but do it in a different manner. doesn't matter if you have a spacer or not, bigger balls or fewer balls, billet basket or stock, thin plates or thick, you end up with a great setup for riding offroad. just like the trucks, some versions are more expensive than others.
mine is smooth. no pulsing. so something must be off on yours. do you have the stock amount of springs? i added more springs (like taking balls out of the revloc) and that enables you to change the lockup point. i have had mine chatter, but that was from a 3rd gear start from stopped and a 2nd gear start on a hill. the chatter stopped as soon as i twisted the throttle more.
whether it is the Z-Start, the EFM or the Revloc, all of these new "auto clutches" get the same result. they just do it differently. just like Ford, Dodge and Chevy all build trucks. all are trucks, but do it in a different manner. doesn't matter if you have a spacer or not, bigger balls or fewer balls, billet basket or stock, thin plates or thick, you end up with a great setup for riding offroad. just like the trucks, some versions are more expensive than others.
revlocman
10-24-2002, 09:17 AM
i have no idea on clutch wear yet. i don't see how that will be a factor. actually, i don't even have an idea as to how you would know they are completely worn out. probably when it doesn't lockup anymore. my only guess.
SUnruh, It's my understanding that the EFM clutch requires several 'adjustments' during the life of the clutch plates. I'm not sure what's required to make these adjustments. I grant you that clutch plate wear should not be excessive, unless the pressure plate has a limited travel. If it has a limited travel, when the plates wear to this limit and begin to slip, wear will be greatly accelerated beause of the constant slipping. Obviously, excessive heat will also be generated. All of this is predicated on the pressure plate having a limited travel and not being 'adjusted' to operate within the correct range of travel.
SUnruh, It's my understanding that the EFM clutch requires several 'adjustments' during the life of the clutch plates. I'm not sure what's required to make these adjustments. I grant you that clutch plate wear should not be excessive, unless the pressure plate has a limited travel. If it has a limited travel, when the plates wear to this limit and begin to slip, wear will be greatly accelerated beause of the constant slipping. Obviously, excessive heat will also be generated. All of this is predicated on the pressure plate having a limited travel and not being 'adjusted' to operate within the correct range of travel.
TexasLightning
10-25-2002, 05:11 AM
update: sunruh is also friends with the yzf owner in question here, and says that there may have been an installation complication. gonna check on that ...
friend of mine had the EFM explod on him after a few hours, but he was the first yzf 400 guy to have one.
EFM gave him a full refund without a hassle, by the way, and he bought a Revlock and loves it.
friend of mine had the EFM explod on him after a few hours, but he was the first yzf 400 guy to have one.
EFM gave him a full refund without a hassle, by the way, and he bought a Revlock and loves it.
TexXR2YZF
10-25-2002, 06:31 AM
I got my EFM unit installed last night. EFM had switched my drive gear from my stock basket at no charge other than the shipping. My end of the installation was very straight forward and literally only took 20 minutes or so. I spaced out my brake pedal with two washers. It was dark so I didn't get to test it other than just feeling what the initial engagement felt like. Extremely cool. Very smooth. It's raining today but hopefully I'll get to test it this weekend.
new2blue
10-28-2002, 08:03 PM
Thanks to all of you who took the time to post replies to my question. One of the first things I'll do when I get my WR03F is install an auto clutch. I haven't decided which one yet.
efm1990
10-29-2002, 01:45 AM
For all of those who dont know us, other than from boards like this, EFM alwasy has, offered to take anybodys stock clutch when they purchase a NO-STALL and change the gears for FREE, just pay the shipping. We add the spacer when we can to help in our FORCE OILING design that we build into our clutch basket. Another thing people dont realize that with the spacer, you can also run more oil, more oil means more cooling and clutch life, most riders buy these clutches to help in there riding, the clutch is a way to control traction from the motor to the rear wheel just using the throttle.
Another advantage to our clutch is that we have a stranded mode built in, incase you need to bump start your bike, a battery dead, broken kick starter, fowled plug, you can push start with our clutch.
Our clutch baskets are hard anodized, just like a hinson, made thicker with special oil and cooling slots in them. And, everybody know, when you come to sell your bike, will the clutch bring more value to the bike? PROBABLY NOT, so you can take ours off with no extra expense to change back. We are here everyday to answer the phone to take care of any problems anybody has, and if anybody every wants a complete unit, we can alwasy provide that to them so installation is eaiser, just the extra parts will affect the price, but since we are a parts dealer for most jap bikes, we just pass this on to you also.
EFM
Another advantage to our clutch is that we have a stranded mode built in, incase you need to bump start your bike, a battery dead, broken kick starter, fowled plug, you can push start with our clutch.
Our clutch baskets are hard anodized, just like a hinson, made thicker with special oil and cooling slots in them. And, everybody know, when you come to sell your bike, will the clutch bring more value to the bike? PROBABLY NOT, so you can take ours off with no extra expense to change back. We are here everyday to answer the phone to take care of any problems anybody has, and if anybody every wants a complete unit, we can alwasy provide that to them so installation is eaiser, just the extra parts will affect the price, but since we are a parts dealer for most jap bikes, we just pass this on to you also.
EFM
MitchPeters
10-29-2002, 02:35 AM
On older YZ/WR 2 strokes, '91 to '97 or so a spacer was needed to install a flywheel weight. Never had any problems. Remember the long rod kit for these bikes?! A spacer under the cylinder was used.
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