[Matt228]

Rode 80's for the first couple of years and we would get smoked. He took his loses and kepted on going. I'am sorry too come off as a jackass, but Ive heard it all! Just wish people would worry more about themselves, or there kids, and leave the others alone. If your getting smoked, work on you riding skills, instead of talking smak skills, its not polite. In my opinon.

You are 100% correct with this statement, BUT if you're getting smoked by someone who shouldn't be in your class, that's a totally different situation. You should still strive to be that fast, but you shouldn't have to be competing against him...it totally takes away the point of the class structure in the first place.

[drz250vid]

Sandbaggers suck.

[sapp591]

What class should RC, Bubba and Reed be in? There is going to always be someone faster. Should all the other Pros be in the B class?

[Matt228]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Once you hit pro, you're pro and there's no other classification like there is in amateurs.

[dirtbiker771]

You know I've never see the likes of people who track what classes everyone runs and trys (crys) about them winning too much, then say they shoud move up so as you might have a chance to win. We have raced for 6 years solid, and all I ever hear is, that guy needs to move up, or that guy is sandbagging! Have you ever seen how fast these kids are around the country? Should a kid riding for 6 years, at 16 years old move up to A class because he rides fast? Or should an older guy that has raced b vet be moved up because he kills his class but more than likely cant or doesnt want to run as hard as the faster class. Iam sorry about this type of post, but it just seems you all are sounding as sore loosers.





Go easy guys, he's from MO. He may be a little slow on the comprehension.

[trackman]

Go easy guys, he's from MO. He may be a little slow on the comprehension.

exactly the problem.

that area NEVER had advancement processes in place until lately, so anyone not being part of an advancement process has a whole different attitude about it.

I have alot of racing friends from MO, and pound for pound they are a great group, just like any place though they have a pretty good share of baggers.

I can name a few that we chased around for years to try to move them.

Anyway say what you will about advancement, but 520 is absolutely correct about how it was handled this year. It sucks.

[sapp591]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Once you hit pro, you're pro and there's no other classification like there is in amateurs.

I dodn't see it that way. The other pros can't keep up so does that mean they should beable to step down to A, because there no comp for Rc or JS. What you guys want is people to move up because there winning, but its possiable if they went to another area in the same class they would maybe get beat. Like I have said before I have see alot of so called sandbagging, not a fan of it, and we don't do it, but is dosent change the fact, what your doing on here, casting stones at them, so you may have a chance to win when they move up, is no better. It makes you sound like sore losers. Atleast tell the rules change.

[Matt228]

Actually, I bet the majority of the people "reported" on here aren't even in the same class as the people who posted their names.

Here's the basic jist of it: If you are too fast for your current class and there is one you can move up into, yet you don't....you're sandbagging.

[sapp591]

Whats too fast? Thats why we have problems with advancements. What constatuts c b a, doing all the jumps but slow in the turns, doing jumps and fast in some corners but not smooth, smooth and fast in turns no jumps, jumps, fast in turns and smooth, years riding racing, age? Now, throw in the fact some riders start better, but don't pass well, and others have bad starts and can pass better. I just don't get it! I've seen riders local kick butt then go to another track and suck! Is it wrong class, bad day, track, the other comp. or everyone he's racing against is sandbagging?

[dirtbiker771]

Sapp, again and again you are showing your lack of knowledge on this subject or even what the advancement process in the AMA is. First of all, it has nothing to do with how you did at ONE track on ONE day. The advancement is based on your yearly results in the district. A rider should want to be advanced to the next class, that's a good thing. It means you learned a lot that year and are now good enough to move up a class. Being advanced is NOT punishment, it's a reward.

Second, the purpose of this thread is to call out those that moved up a class and then went somewhere else and moved DOWN to gain a LL spot or some other trophy. How in the world can you sit there and defend someone that does that? It's wrong and this thread is to shame them further for doing it. If that prevents one guy from trying it at the next race, this thread has served it's purpose.

Like I said earlier, your from MO so you have no idea what we are talking about. Your responses make that obvious.

[trackman]

Advancement is likely one of the biggest things that AMA can help, add, and improve with in this sport. It constitutes the whole core of this this sport and it's integrity. 2008 was handle less then poorly and is very screwed up, it has to be fixed.

sorry 591, but your dead wrong. classifications are absolutely needed, and have to be maintained without favoritizm, special favors, etc.

If anyone is running a class they dominate and there is a class that is faster they should be moved to that class. It's called a level playing field.

don't bring the bullcrap pro stuff into it this thread is about sandbagging amatuer riders who don't belong in a certain class, which many reside by you.

one of the biggest baggers known to man is right down there only difference today is he is older and now doesn't have to run all over the midwest to avoid advancement anymore.

[Neysbo]

There are many definitions of sandbagging and a true sandbagger is a big ***** and they know it but are able to live with themselves. I think calling people out on here or wherever is great.

The AMA can definitly help here as they track all AMA races that riders do but in a lot of areas people do not run AMA.

To me a sandbagger is someone who purposley and knowingly is racing in a lower level to win most of the time. As an example guys racing "B" at the racer X vet series who run "A" in District 17.

As Sapp mentions though a sandbagging rider here may not even be competive in that same classification if they go down south. I have seen on three occassions this year where "C" riders from other states have showed up in Illinois and ran laptimes that would have put them in the top three of "B" class and faster than several "A"riders. These riders all come from areas that do not run AMA races.

Now as far as pro's , once pro all bets are off. Those riders have the option to quit and return to more local racing and do pro ams where they would be competitive. No one makes them do the Nationals.

[JAMRACING21]

what about the the kids that sandbag? well should i say parents that sandbag there kids?
like a kid racing a entire first year taking 2nd place overall in a B class and coming back the next year on the same bike and still racing the B class?
or how the AMA has a oil injection class for ktm minis and cobra p3's and ama also has a shaft class pw50's and they seperate those bikes,
but the local tracks combine them to save time i guess, and it is just NO WAY FAIR to put a mini adv. or P3 up against a pw50, thats why i wont let my son race his mini anymore is just because of that i dont want to discourage some poor kid on a pw50 in a 3 lap race, he gets lapped once or twice and only gets 1 or 2 laps in?
I CALL THAT MX TRACK SANDBAGGING!
you all know damn well that a kid would never be allowed to race a 85 in the 65 class, and it s the same if not more of a difference with the mini's and P3's racing against a pw50's,

And i just love it when i hear a parent say how good there kid is because he can win everytime he races because the kid races against a far less superior bike every race!


ITS not the AMA that needs to step up ITS THE LOCAL TRACKS THAT NEED TO START MAKING THINGS MORE FAIR!
even if they do have to take a extra 10 minutes for another class

[trackman]

honestly.

my kid "races" a crf 50 in that class and gets smoked. but only at our track and only when he "wants to".

you will love this.


LOL kids should race after the get older. 50cc class racing isnt' needed. let the kids just go play riding and don't take them racing til they are older.

my opinion anyway.

[JohnnyOfast]

LOL kids should race after the get older. 50cc class racing isnt' needed. let the kids just go play riding and don't take them racing til they are older.

my opinion anyway.

:applause:

[sapp591]

Advancement is likely one of the biggest things that AMA can help, add, and improve with in this sport. It constitutes the whole core of this this sport and it's integrity. 2008 was handle less then poorly and is very screwed up, it has to be fixed.

sorry 591, but your dead wrong. classifications are absolutely needed, and have to be maintained without favoritizm, special favors, etc.

If anyone is running a class they dominate and there is a class that is faster they should be moved to that class. It's called a level playing field.

don't bring the bullcrap pro stuff into it this thread is about sandbagging amatuer riders who don't belong in a certain class, which many reside by you.

one of the biggest baggers known to man is right down there only difference today is he is older and now doesn't have to run all over the midwest to avoid advancement anymore.

The problem is the rules and lack of rules. To fix the problem all tracks would have to be AMA. They are not! You will not fix that, when you figure that out you will be smarter. I have seen C riders advanced that didn't need to be just because of the points they earned, because of the lack of rider turn out in AMA races. Saying that I don't understand because iam from MO makes you look even more stupid, sorry. We have raced in 9 states and raced Lorretta's and Ponca. I know what the other districts are doing but the problem still rests in not all the tracks in the states are AMA, thus forcing all the riders to be scored correctly at all races!

[BG31]

Sapp....Looke like your boy was winning 125C locally before he went to Lorettas and finished 37 in 125C....Now, the guy who won 125C at LL's was Jamie Lawrence. When he returned from Hurricane Mills, he went on to race the 250 Expert class in New York.....So my question is.........Was he sandbaggin in the C class.....Is Jamie considered a sandbagger?
Next............

[titanium_arm_guy]

bg where do you look up past LL results? on the mxsports page they only have 2007 and past regional and area quals

[trackman]

well bottom line, soon more and more will "not" be AmA so don't look for the problem to improve.

BG is right, baggers can come from anyplace and anyone can "beat" the system. I personally have had alot of experience with baggers areas I stated before. It was because at the time d-18 had no advancement in place and didn't enforce what little there was.

LL shouldn't bother with C class champions, it's redundant. Put the "cherry" on top, crown a champion who is the best. of course you can't make a boat load of money that way.

:P

[sapp591]

Sapp....Looke like your boy was winning 125C locally before he went to Lorettas and finished 37 in 125C....Now, the guy who won 125C at LL's was Jamie Lawrence. When he returned from Hurricane Mills, he went on to race the 250 Expert class in New York.....So my question is.........Was he sandbaggin in the C class.....Is Jamie considered a sandbagger?
Next............

Well, I belive we ran two local races in C class, everything else we run was schoolboy and open classes. The reason was, not to be labeled as a sandbagger. As far as Lawrence being a sandbagger, sure looks like it, but you didn't hear it from me.

[sapp591]

well bottom line, soon more and more will "not" be AmA so don't look for the problem to improve.


:P

Thats what I was getting at. We dont and wont have a fix, so complaining about it does'nt help.

Again, I am sorry to have came off as a ASS. I don't have any problems with what you guys are complaining about,other than doing it on a public fourm instead of privite.:ride:

[Matt228]

Well we use a public forum to lure in guys from Missouri to make them sounds like asses....:busted: :p

[dirtbiker771]

Thats what I was getting at. We dont and wont have a fix, so complaining about it does'nt help.

Again, I am sorry to have came off as a ASS. I don't have any problems with what you guys are complaining about,other than doing it on a public fourm instead of privite.:ride:



You're looking at it wrong, these guys aren't bitching about it in a public forum. It's kind of like the newspapers with the pedophiles, you call them out in a public manner to discourage them from their behavior.

If you were one of these sandbaggers that go around doing this sort of thing, would you be more encouraged to stop it if A, someone had a private talk or B, you go to a race and everyone is looking at you and snickering because you have been caught red handed and called out for all to see?

B is much more effective and since like you said, we don't have much of a system now to stop it what better way to stop it than embarrassment?

[Moto-520]

Sapp...we highly disagree. Now leave Thumpertalk and come back on with a different name like I did last year after I offended a few people. I was Vomitlastnight and pissed everyone off so I came back on with a new name and it's like nothing happened. I think this is where you stand with your arguement against this thread. We don't appreciate you implying that we are somehow cowards because we call these people out on a website instead of face to face. Trust me...you REALLY don't want that because it would hurt the weekend racing environment and probably lead to more negativity than is necessary. A simple listing of sandbaggers on this thread is good enough.
Where the hell is Shecky?

[sapp591]

It's still not polite! I do think its cowardly. Like you said in you post you don't want to say it to there face. COWARD! Seeing how you don't like what Iam saying implies it even more. As far as saying it to my face, if I was sandbaging, it would go alot further.

[Matt228]

It's still not polite! I do think its cowardly. Like you said in you post you don't want to say it to there face. COWARD! Seeing how you don't like what Iam saying implies it even more. As far as saying it to my face, if I was sandbaging, it would go alot further.

Neither is sandbagging!

[trackman]

polite??

who give two craps if it's polite when a person is a bagger. well they are a bagger.

most of them know who the hell I am, and know that if advancement was still controlled locally like it should be, at least in this area this thread wouldn't have much worth.

HA!

17 years of advancement across this desk, and not once did we say "ahh thats ok we won't move anyone this year".......


funny schit right there which will come back to bite them hard this fall.

[BG31]

bg where do you look up past LL results? on the mxsports page they only have 2007 and past regional and area quals

For 2006 I looked at AMA Sports....If you you really want to see sandbaggin...look there

[sapp591]

polite??

who give two craps if it's polite when a person is a bagger. well they are a bagger.

most of them know who the hell I am, and know that if advancement was still controlled locally like it should be, at least in this area this thread wouldn't have much worth.

HA!

17 years of advancement across this desk, and not once did we say "ahh thats ok we won't move anyone this year".......


funny schit right there which will come back to bite them hard this fall.



Didn't say you where wrong, just going about it the wrong way. You can't take the rules (law) into your own hands so why try, or better yet complain about it. Acording to the rules they are not bagging! Correct? Or, am I missing something? Yes, what they maybe doing is wrong in your eyes, but it isnt in the AMA or NMA eyes. Correct?

I guess what mean is, this isnt the way to fight this fight. Your beef is with the rule makers not so much the riders.

[thdh96]

OMG, are we done with this yet. Sapp, you and the AMA are talking money and politics. We are talking about pride and a guilty conscious.