[Moto-520]

yes...but a guy like that has payed his dues. He probably doesn't make all that much racing and the extra hondo for the vet classes helps his cause. I know it sucks but if you're "A"...then you gotta deal with the occasional pro. We actually gave Hoffmaster shit (jokingly) at Mount Carol when he first showed up for +25. His response was "I've paid my dues" and he's right.

[Matt228]

Yeah, he has a point and I'm not bagging on him. I guess it's one of those things where from the outside looking in it looks different then if you were actually in his shoes.

[Neysbo]

I think another reason Corman is still "B" class is his age , I think he just turned 16 earlier this year so he was only 15 on Jan 1 which meant he could not run A. Now if he runs "B" again next year then he fully qualifies as a bagger.

[MyFirstThumper]

There are sandbaggers and then there are ex-pros who come back and race amateur races. I was at Red Bud 2 weeks ago for the Vet Race and had my ass handed to me by Denny Schwartz (ex Team Maico and Team Honda) and Tim Miller (ex-everything and a pro since age 15) in the +50 class.

There were 3 or 4 other former AMA pro riders in the class as well. Shouldn't these guys be off playing golf and wearing ugly clothes so the rest of us have a faint hope in hell of doing well?

As an ex pro (ex team Yamaha ex team Maico) back in the day I take offense to this post. I had a serious accident in early '79 and finally got well enough to race in late '81 and raced the entire season of '82 with poor results. So I hung up the helmet and did not ride again (At all nothing, No trails, No street, NADA) until 2005. I got bored watching Supercross on TV so I bought a DRZ400s and started riding some trails and found that to be kind of boring just like I did when I was a kid. So I went out to the barn and fixed up my YZ250A and went to a local vintage race. So now I'm old and fat and I haven't lined up to starting gate in over 25 years so I enter 50+ C. I smoked everybody! Lapped the entire field. Some of them more than twice. Next race. I entered 50+B Smoked em again! I didn't lap everybody but I did lap some of them. Next race. I entered 50+A Won again only with another guy close enough that I could hear him and another not far behind him. Now it seems that one of the three of us win every race. One of the other guys is also an ex pro and the third guy never raced until he was in his late 40's.
So instead of whining about the old ex pros that come and take your chance away of winning a piece of plastic why don't you work on your riding technique? It seems that the reason I'm still fast (For an Old Fat guy) is that I remember how to ride. Some things you never forget. I can't go out and compete with the likes of RC or Bubba. But I still like the thrill of racing. If a guy finds trail riding boring why would he want to go play Cow pasture Billiards? (Or Golf as it is commonly called.)

[trackman]

It seems that the reason I'm still fast (For an Old Fat guy) is that I remember how to ride. Some things you never forget.

exactly why when you came out to "race your first time back" you should have entered in the A class where you belonged.

No one is really bitching about what tommy does, or for that matter what Jame Polvolny and others do by racing local races. We understand the thought of it, now with that said, I am not so sure that Emig and others should belong in the "National AMATUER Championship" races at LL. But then that is another story.

[razornpc]

im gonna agree with myfirst. i dont think anyone here is a pro as so nobodies really out anything but pride, but even then arent you guys racing because its fun? or maybe its all the money and the hot little lap chickys at the amateur events......

[MyFirstThumper]

[QUOTE=trackman;5242763]exactly why when you came out to "race your first time back" you should have entered in the A class where you belonged.

QUOTE]

Why would I have entered in the A class after so many years? My first race back I thought a kid on an old mini trail 50 could have beaten me. I found out different and moved up to where I belonged in short order.

[Matt228]

It can go both ways. Why not start in A and move your way back if need be?

[Moto-520]

It has to be 100% enforced and followed...whatever the rules are in the rulebook...no exceptions. Once you move to "A"...no turning back. I have an 8 year old son...who will turn 9 at the end of the month. He rides a CRF50...the age limit is 8 for the current class he is in. When he turns 9...he will have to move up to the 65's (and...if I want him to be competetive...i'll have to pull out the checkbook and anty up for a $2500 bike...otherwise...he races his 50 against the bigger bike) no matter what. I think it shows a lack of integrity to try and get around the rules with the A advancement and such. Kevin Cozzad should feel like a total chump for even trying to race in the B/C vet class and his name is synonymous with sandbagging at this point.

I know where BG136 is going with this. It is not entirely up to the AMA to enforce these rules. They can't possibly keep an eye on everyone. If you see someone breaking the rules...don't be afraid to tell the referee. In the meantime...if you see a sandbagger out there...put him on this thread and we'll enforce the rules on our own terms (out on the racetrack).

Seems pretty hardcore? That's because we love the sport too much to let it get watered down like that. My non racing buddies don't understand why i'm such a serious freak when it comes to mx. It's because to me...it's more fun to treat it like it's more important than it is.

[Matt228]

im gonna agree with myfirst. i dont think anyone here is a pro as so nobodies really out anything but pride, but even then arent you guys racing because its fun? or maybe its all the money and the hot little lap chickys at the amateur events......

For a lot of guys, pride is what it's all about. Ever since moving to +25 this year, that's all I have been racing for because I haven't placed in a paying spot yet and they don't hand out trophies (well trackman does). And ya know what, I'm having more fun then ever at the races and I'm coming home with absolutely nothing.

Sure we do this for fun, but what fun is it to lose to some guy who is racing in a class he doesn't belong in?

[MyFirstThumper]

It can go both ways. Why not start in A and move your way back if need be?


My thinking was that If I start in A and I'm way out of my league I will probably get hurt again. Knowing that when I line up to the gate I have this involuntary mental switch telling me to lead or pass everyone. I don't have the ability to use common sense :bonk:

[Moto-520]

Well...then exercise self control and don't be to embarrassed to slow down a little. What about the guy that is racing in the "C" class and gets hurt trying to keep up with you?
It can't be all about me me me. Think of the other people in the sport that want a chance to do well in front of their family and friends. Imagine how embarrassing it was for the guys in the "C" class that told their buddies to come out and watch...only to get lapped twice by you.

[Moto-520]

But Firstthumper...don't think i'm hatin on you or anything. Welcome back to the sport and good to have you back. I bet you've got some stories over the years. This is a topic that some of us feel strongly about. I personally race "A" but I want to be able to bring my non mx buddies into the sport without them getting lapped in the "C" class.

[MyFirstThumper]

Well...then exercise self control and don't be to embarrassed to slow down a little. What about the guy that is racing in the "C" class and gets hurt trying to keep up with you?
It can't be all about me me me. Think of the other people in the sport that want a chance to do well in front of their family and friends. Imagine how embarrassing it was for the guys in the "C" class that told their buddies to come out and watch...only to get lapped twice by you.

:lol: As I posted earlier I can't. I don't know exactly why. I have tried but I always ending up riding as fast as the track and my equipment will allow which is an improvement over the past where I thought I was invincible. The only time I consciously slowed down was when I tried to come back in '81 and '82 and I still had learning to walk again fresh in my mind. When I had my career ending crash I was running second and was trying to pass a lapper in redicullasy stupid part of the track caught a rut and ended up making a sandwich out of myself between my bike and one of those concrete arches at the LA Coliseum :excuseme: It had nothing to do with embarrassment.

I know why you guys feel so strong about Sandbaggers. I grew up in Southern California and we had three major racing organizations the AMA the CMC and the CRC and don't think it didn't make me mad when a guy that was running intermediate or even pro (we didn't have the A,B,C, system back then) in one organization and then riding in another one on an off weekend or night series and riding a lower class.

My point isn't that I agree with Sandbagging but that where are the washed up National level riders supposed to ride? I can't compete on the national level anymore so that means I should take up Golf?

[Matt228]

Obviously, with your injury, your situation is different then most others. But in general, I would think that if you were once pro, you should never go below A on the local level because, like you said, you just don't forget how to ride.

[MyFirstThumper]

Sorry guys I really didn't mean to hijack your thread. I just took offense to the one guy that said I should be playing Golf instead of riding. Didn't one statement would expand as it did. Again sorry for the hijack. Keep putting the word out about the Sandbaggers:thumbsup:

[Matt228]

Don't worry about it. Here in the Midwest forum we rarely stay on topic! :thumbsup:

[Moto-520]

At the end of the day...it's all for entertainment so feel free to speak your opinions...we'd be interested to hear them.

[BG31]

This is what this thread is supposed to do, exercise opinion. If we are able to shame just one guy into the correct class, then maybe someone else will be able to capture his first moto win, creating a life-long memory. The funny thing is that most baggers know who they are. I just think it gets way out of hand. There will always be grey areas, but, I thnk we are all talking about the gross bagging. (i.e. the fast B guy racing C)

Moto520 had some great comments about the others who are affectd by the bagging. (embarrasment, risk of getting hurt or jumped on, etc...)

Bt the way, as this thread continues, you can really tell the baggers who jump on to defend themselves with excuses and justification, which just happens to be on the list trackman had put together near the front of the thread........interesting.

[00YZ426FMRCD]

What a great thread! Once a bagger always a bagger! I hate to say it... Which I am.... I would rather be a GolfBagger than a Sandbagger anyday of the week. Especially at my age. I can understand Sandbagging in the younger beginner and C-classes. It's part of racing. It isn't as big of a problem in the Sr. and + 40 classes although they still have A, B & C Classes at the bigger events.

I would rather run in an A class or B class any age group and any day of the week (I am a mid-pack B + 40 rider) and finish dead last - Than mix it up with anyone who claims to be a C-Class beginner. Just too much risk and way below my potential.

Also, I can wait for the day when I run into somone bagging in my class. I can tell you this. They aint going to lap me and if by some reason they should, they aint going to hit a Golfball as far...

I hope everyone regardless of which side they are on can just have fun reading this thread like I have and just blow their smoke...

- RCD

[JohnnyOfast]

,,,,,, It isn't as big of a problem in the Sr. and + 40 classes although they still have A, B & C Classes at the bigger events.


go to a RacerX vet race,,,, I thought I was a sandbagger,,,, I was lucky to break the top 20. :lol:

[00YZ426FMRCD]

go to a RacerX vet race,,,, I thought I was a sandbagger,,,, I was lucky to break the top 20. :lol:


Good for you! Nice to see someone learned a lesson... :lol:

[Vomitlastnight]

BG...hunt them down one by one and post the Vet series sandbaggers on this thread. I can tell you are willing to put in the time to make this right so get it on.

[BG31]

Vomit...You mean like Randy Southard...who raced A last year and all of this year....yet he easily won the 30B class at byron senior series.

[MyFirstThumper]

Also, I can wait for the day when I run into somone bagging in my class. I can tell you this. They aint going to lap me and if by some reason they should, they aint going to hit a Golfball as far... - RCD

Next spring I am planning a trip to my Sister in Iowa and My Brother in Michigan. If I remember correctly Indiana wouldn't be too far out of my way. I am planning on taking my bikes both Vintage and Modern. I'd like to see that blocking technique of yours. If it is as effective as you say I bet it is just as offensive if not more to other riders than sandbagging.

[00YZ426FMRCD]

Next spring I am planning a trip to my Sister in Iowa and My Brother in Michigan. If I remember correctly Indiana wouldn't be too far out of my way. I am planning on taking my bikes both Vintage and Modern. I'd like to see that blocking technique of yours. If it is as effective as you say I bet it is just as offensive if not more to other riders than sandbagging.

MyFirst - Read the thread carefully.... I never mentioned blocking anyone... Just mentioned I wouldn't get lapped... I always let a faster rider by on the track or in the woods. Also keep in mind we are just blowing smoke and having fun with the thread so don't take offense.

- RCD

[MyFirstThumper]

MyFirst - Also keep in mind we are just blowing smoke and having fun with the thread so don't take offense.

- RCD

Me too. Just couldn't turn down a challenge. No harm no foul

[Thomas6x]

Man .I just have to move back north.I love the action:cry:

[BG31]

6X...The action of calling out sandbaggers or the genuine passion for the sport up here?

[Vomitlastnight]

Congratulations :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

You have won a Thumpy